Unpacking ‘Good Quests,’ Christianity, and Caviar Bumps

The ngo of Silicon Valley’s entrepreneurs has agelong been to alteration the world. But, however bash you cognize whether a pursuit is bully oregon bad? ACTS17 collective, a Christian faith-based radical of tech entrepreneurs, says a beardown narration with God is the answer. Today connected the show, we speech astir the radical promoting a faith-based attack to tech, we larn what a “good quest” is,  and we inquire what interaction religion volition person connected the benignant of ventures the vale pursues successful the future.

You tin travel Michael Calore connected Bluesky astatine @snackfight, Lauren Goode connected Bluesky astatine @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer connected Bluesky astatine @zoeschiffer. Write to america astatine [email protected].

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Transcript

Note: This is an automated transcript, which whitethorn incorporate errors.

Michael Calore: Question for the group. When was the past clip you went to church?

Zoë Schiffer: That's a large question. I'm Jewish, truthful I deliberation we spell to a temple, not church. And I went beauteous recently, for the High Holidays. Lauren?

Michael Calore: Very nice.

Lauren Goode: Lovely. I deliberation I went erstwhile I was connected vacation. I similar popping into churches erstwhile I'm traveling to antithetic places.

Michael Calore: Nice. Light a small candle?

Lauren Goode: Yeah, conscionable look astatine the architecture.

Zoë Schiffer: That's cool. What astir you, Mike?

Lauren Goode: Yeah. What astir you?

Michael Calore: I curse I was listening to what you were some saying, but portion you were talking, portion besides listening, I was besides racking my encephalon to effort and retrieve the past clip that I was successful a church, and I cannot retrieve the past time. I truly conscionable bash not know.

Zoë Schiffer: That's wholly fair.

Michael Calore: Well, Silicon Valley has its ain narration with God, and that is what we're going to beryllium talking astir this week. Is everybody ready?

Zoë Schiffer: I'm precise ready.

Lauren Goode: I'm acceptable for confession time.

Michael Calore: This is WIRED's Uncanny Valley, a amusement astir the radical powerfulness and power of Silicon Valley. I'm Michael Calore, Director of Consumer Tech and Culture present astatine WIRED.

Lauren Goode: I'm Lauren Goode. I'm a elder writer astatine WIRED.

Zoë Schiffer: And I'm Zoe Schiffer WIRED's, Director of Business and Industry.

Michael Calore: Power, wealth and Influence. This has agelong been portion of the allure for galore successful the tech world, but for a increasing radical successful the Valley, there's a caller way to success, God. Today, we're talking astir the Silicon Valley Christians who are promoting a faith-based attack to innovation. We'll driblet successful connected a San Francisco enactment wherever tech bigwigs and influential figures speech concern and the Bible, we'll larn about, quote, unquote, "Good quests," and we'll inquire the large question, what interaction volition religion person connected the benignant of ventures the Valley pursues successful the future? So Lauren, archer america astir this enactment you went to.

Lauren Goode: Which one? I spell to truthful galore parties.

Michael Calore: Well, let's commencement with the enactment successful New Mexico.

Lauren Goode: Yes. Okay. That one. To beryllium wholly clear, I was not astatine this party. It's been written about, and I've heard astir it straight from 1 of the hosts. This was a three-day day enactment held successful New Mexico successful November of 2023. And the taxable of it was The Roast, the Toast and the Holy Ghost.

Zoë Schiffer: Oh my gosh. Say what you volition astir tech people, but they cognize however to marque a enactment theme.

Lauren Goode: So this enactment was for the 40th day of idiosyncratic named Trae Stephens, who is simply a well-known task capitalist and entrepreneur. WIRED his written astir him before. Our colleague, Steven Levy, did a large interrogation with Trae past year. And this party, according to Trae's wife, Michelle, was designed to beryllium a playoff of Kanye West's Sunday Service. They booked a DJ who remixes worship songs, but besides it was similar a party, right? They said they served caviar bumps, determination was meal pizza, determination was mimosas. A bully clip was to beryllium had. But what truly benignant of stood retired from this enactment is that 1 of Trae's concern partners, Peter Thiel, gave a occurrence broadside chat that had each of the attendees talking.

Michael Calore: Okay.

Zoë Schiffer: I honestly did not cognize that Peter Thiel was spiritual astatine each until I started talking to you astir this.

Michael Calore: And we should backmost up and accidental a small spot astir Peter Thiel, and astir who helium is and wherefore he's important.

Lauren Goode: Yeah, for the uninitiated, Peter Thiel is different well-known task capitalist, and he's known for galore reasons. He's 1 of the archetypal founders of PayPal, the alleged PayPal Mafia. He's an aboriginal capitalist successful Facebook, truthful he's incredibly wealthy. In media circles, he's infamous for having backed the suit that enactment Gawker Media retired of business. In politics, he's been a precise vocal protagonist of Donald Trump, and Peter Thiel's web of right-wing allies has been infiltrating the Trump administration. And to your point, Zoe, he's besides religious. This sermon that helium gave astatine Trae Stephens's day enactment has been described as, "A occurrence broadside chat connected miracles and forgiveness." And it was aft this occurrence broadside chat that helium gave, that" according to Michelle Stephens, the woman of Trae, radical were coming up to her and saying, I didn't cognize Peter was a Christian. How tin you beryllium cheery and a billionaire and beryllium Christian?" And adjacent thing like, "I didn't cognize you could beryllium astute successful a Christian, "Michelle says that radical said to her.

Michael Calore: Oh, no.

Lauren Goode: And past they started asking, "And wherever bash you spell to religion successful San Francisco?"

Michael Calore: So wherever bash they spell to religion successful San Francisco?

Zoë Schiffer: They are not talking astir doing yoga astatine Grace Cathedral.

Lauren Goode: They spell to a religion that's called Epic Church, which has been astir for respective years successful San Francisco. But according to the pastor there, it has grown successful attendance successful caller years. But successful summation to the Stephens's being members astatine this church, and different radical successful the tech community, Michelle Stephens, who is an entrepreneur, was entrepreneurial and decided to commencement a non-profit that hosts gatherings wherever radical travel and springiness talks, benignant of similar the 1 that Peter Thiel gave astatine that day party. And I ended up going to 1 of their events recently. It was truly interesting. They telephone this radical the ACTS, that's A-C-T-S 17 Collective, and it's an acronym, it stands for Acknowledging Christ successful Technology and Society.

Michael Calore: And these are ticketed talks?

Lauren Goode: They're ticketed talks.

Michael Calore: Okay.

Lauren Goode: Fifty bucks and you person a nonstop enactment to God. He's connected your velocity dial.

Zoë Schiffer: Do they consciousness much similar parties oregon much similar church?

Lauren Goode: Well, this is simply a large question, due to the fact that the lawsuit that I went to precocious successful San Francisco is successful a backstage location that is simply a converted church. It was successful this room... You're nodding 'cause I deliberation you cognize precisely wherever it is. Right?

Michael Calore: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Zoë Schiffer: Is it the 1 by Dolores?

Lauren Goode: Yes.

Zoë Schiffer: It is? Oh my gosh, I've ever been truthful funny astir that space.

Lauren Goode: It's beautiful. There's a large cavernous country that has a ample arched model successful the backmost connected an exposed ceramic wall, and precocious ceilings and soundproofing on the walls, wood paneling. So erstwhile you are successful it, you're like, "I consciousness similar I'm successful a church," but that it was low-key enactment vibes. The DJ was spinning immoderate airy beats, ambient music. There were bartenders, there's food.

Zoë Schiffer: Caviar oregon nary caviar?

Lauren Goode: There were sanction badges. There were nary caviar bumps.

Zoë Schiffer: Bummer.

Lauren Goode: Such a bummer. Yeah.

Michael Calore: And what was the talk?

Lauren Goode: So this speech really featured Trae Stephens himself. The ACTS 17 Collective has done a fewer erstwhile talks with different people, but this 1 was Trae being interviewed by a chap task capitalist, who appropriately, was named Christian. And they were talking astir this conception of bully quests, which is thing that Trae has written astir before. He and a co-writer published an nonfiction successful 2022 astir the thought of bully quests. Good quests is simply a model for reasoning astir the enactment that you do. And let's conscionable presume you're a techie, you're an entrepreneur, you're a task capitalist, you're a startup person, and you're trying to find meaning done your work. And bully quests is simply a mode to find and bash enactment that feels purposeful oregon meaningful successful immoderate way. And that means you are connected a bully quest. It besides means that determination are atrocious quests.

Michael Calore: I see.

Lauren Goode: Which is simply a batch of what they talked about.

Michael Calore: So, the bully quests and atrocious quests happening sounds similar a large taxable that we should speech about, but I privation to enactment a pin successful it for the infinitesimal due to the fact that I privation to speech astir the concern connections that hap astatine these meetings. I'm assuming that these meetings are not conscionable for radical to get unneurotic and perceive to conversations astir God, but they're astir apt meetings wherever radical network. And is determination a anticipation that Peter Thiel volition amusement up astatine these meetings?

Lauren Goode: Sorry, I shouldn't laugh.

Zoë Schiffer: It was surely Lauren's hope.

Lauren Goode: Yeah. Well, I person a mates questions for him. He has spoken astatine these events before, truthful sure, networking is decidedly a portion of it. And 1 of the things that Act 17 has said is that they're not lone inviting Christians to these events, they're inviting radical of each denominations. And adjacent if you're an atheist, you tin join. They privation to get the speech started. Some radical are determination due to the fact that they genuinely privation to find their religion again oregon beryllium capable to explicit it freely. And I deliberation different radical are determination for the bent and for the networking, and to hitch elbows with radical similar Trae Stephens oregon idiosyncratic similar Garry Tan from Y Combinator, who was astatine this caller event. And I really deliberation that they're good with that, due to the fact that astatine events similar these, the themes of religion and enactment are commingled truthful overmuch that sometimes it's indistinguishable to afloat recognize what it is they're talking about.

Michael Calore: Yeah. And Peter Thiel's Faith was specified a large catalyst for this question that the Stephens's person started. And I conscionable wonderment if you tin get into a small spot astir what transportation with Peter Thiel is with this radical and this couple?

Lauren Goode: Yeah, truthful it's really rather a large web of Peter Thiel-related companies and investments. So, Peter Thiel runs a task superior steadfast called Founders Fund, and Trae Stephens is simply a spouse there. Trae besides co-founded Anduril, which is simply a defence tech institution that builds weapons similar autonomous drones and underwater vessels. Peter Thiel's Founders Fund is simply a large capitalist successful Anduril. Trae Stephens was besides an aboriginal worker astatine Palantir. Palantir is simply a information quality institution that Peter Thiel co-founded with idiosyncratic named Alex Karp. I mentioned Garry Tan earlier. He was besides an aboriginal worker astatine Palantir. Now, helium has his ain task superior steadfast and helium runs Y Combinator, but helium has been progressive successful Act 17 events. So this non-profit and their lawsuit bid was partially inspired by Peter Thiel and conscionable the speech that helium gave, but besides it's a beauteous choky web of truly high-profile techies who besides hap to beryllium linked to these tech firms that marque defence tech for the authorities who are progressive successful these talks.

Michael Calore: It is specified an absorbing juxtaposition that these folks who are coming unneurotic to speech astir their faith, and to speech astir Christian values and promoting them successful technology, are besides gathering systems that enactment more.

Zoë Schiffer: They don't spot those things arsenic successful conflict, I don't think, from what I've read. Alex Karp has talked astir akin themes. He has a caller publication out, and helium said specifically that the information that truthful galore astute radical are moving connected societal media apps erstwhile they could beryllium moving on, helium doesn't accidental the connection bully quests, but it decidedly has that flavor, is successful his caput a large problem.

Lauren Goode: Say much astir that, Zoe, due to the fact that Trae talked a batch astir this, too. The consultants astatine McKinsey and radical who are making photograph sharing apps are getting a truly atrocious rap these days amongst this crowd. And I privation to perceive much astir what Karp has been saying astir that.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. He talks a batch astir however the thought that each societies are adjacent successful his caput is simply not true. That we should deliberation of the United States arsenic unsocial and worthy of protecting and preserving successful presumption of our culture. And so, if you judge that moving connected nationalist defence is simply a truly important vocation, a calling even. Just portion we're talking astir these large sanction radical and their narration with religion, helium was doing a Q & A with Barry Weiss astatine a assemblage recently, and 1 of the students asked, "What could we bash to assistance the moving class?" And helium answered with a clump of antithetic suggestions, but helium said his fig 1 proposition was introducing them to religion, which I thought was rather interesting.

Lauren Goode: It's astir similar is determination a hostility here? Which is I what you're getting astatine Mike?

Michael Calore: Yeah.

Lauren Goode: In espousing your beliefs and your religion, but besides utilizing it arsenic an absorbing framework, wherever successful immoderate cases you're casting a motivation judgement upon the jobs that radical bash successful their day-to-day lives oregon to enactment their families, to live, basically, right? And it's peculiarly absorbing erstwhile it's coming from these almighty figures successful exertion who hap to physique tools and services and apps that are utilized by the national authorities and defense, right? Because you mightiness clasp up 1 and say, "Well, that seems incongruous with doing bully things for society." And what's absorbing present is that these figures are expressing these ideological and spiritual beliefs and infusing the Silicon Valley hustle civilization with them.

Michael Calore: And we'll person to speech much astir that culture, but archetypal we request to instrumentality a break. So let's bash that and travel close back. Welcome backmost to Uncanny Valley. So Lauren, erstwhile you spoke to Michelle Stephens for your story, she mentioned that she had felt tokenized arsenic a Christian successful Silicon Valley. And Christianity was benignant of a soiled connection successful the Valley for a agelong time. Right?

Lauren Goode: I don't cognize if I would picture it truthful overmuch arsenic a soiled connection arsenic I would that I've heard from radical that they possibly person felt uncomfortable earlier successful the highly agnostic Silicon Valley, talking openly successful nonrecreational settings astir their faith. I spoke to 1 entrepreneur and task capitalist astatine the lawsuit who said he's been moving successful the Valley since 2005, and he's ever been Christian, but helium ne'er truly felt similar helium could deterioration it connected his sleeve before. And much recently, and helium specifically said since the pandemic, he's been a small spot much unfastened astir it. And done that, has been pleasantly amazed to spot different radical say, "Oh, hey, I'm a Christian too." But I deliberation Silicon Valley successful general, you're right, has agelong been perceived arsenic agnostic and adjacent atheistic. Some of the data, however, shows that radical are really much rooted successful religion that you would think, due to the fact that Silicon similar a large geographical place. It's not conscionable the tech industry.

Michael Calore: So, you're saying that this ample contingent of humanity is not a monolith?

Lauren Goode: Right, exactly. They're each wearing hoodies and Apple watches, but they're not each the same.

Michael Calore: Is determination immoderate information astir what the breakdown of Christians and non-Christians are successful Silicon Valley?

Lauren Goode: Yeah, that's a bully question. And we person to zoom retired a small bit, due to the fact that the astir caller information we person from Pew Research looks astatine religion successful California and religion successful the San Francisco metro area, but not, quote, unquote, "Silicon Valley specifically." In the San Francisco metro area, 46% of adults place arsenic Christian, and that's lone down somewhat from a decennary ago. But an expanding fig of radical accidental they are religiously unaffiliated. That's astatine 42% compared with 35% a decennary ago. And past successful California, broadly, the fig of radical who place with different religions, similar Judaism and Islam, has mostly remained the aforesaid implicit the past decade. So, successful short, determination are a just fig of Christians successful the San Francisco metro area, but I would accidental the biggest benignant of counterforce to that is agnosticism. And Zoe, I privation to perceive your thoughts connected this too, due to the fact that I cognize we've had immoderate conversations astir the alternate things that radical bash for self-discovery successful Silicon Valley, this thought of like, "Well, I person a practice, similar a meditation practice," or, "I person definite rituals that I do." And they find assemblage successful antithetic places, but they're not needfully rooted successful religion with a superior R.

Zoë Schiffer: Right. Yeah. I bash deliberation the benignant of psychedelic experimentation, the Burning Man of it each tin service a akin function, giving radical a consciousness of belonging, thing extracurricular of themselves that they're engaged with, and each of those things tin beryllium truly meaningful.

Michael Calore: And however bash folks similar the Stephens and the ACTS 17 assemblage consciousness astir these spiritual pursuits that are non-Christian, non-Western spiritual pursuits?

Lauren Goode: The consciousness that I get is that these things are not mutually exclusive. You could spell connected your shroom trips oregon your workshops astatine Esalen, oregon I don't know, immoderate different benignant of-

Michael Calore: Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah.

Lauren Goode: Yeah, we're each going, "Yes. Yes, yes." All of the agnostic practices. And that doesn't exclude you from having a spiritual signifier that is rooted successful humanities texts oregon immoderate benignant of established God, oregon has an authoritative church, I think. They're saying, astatine slightest initially, "Our arms are open. Anyone tin travel to these events." I'm consenting to stake that of the 200 positive radical who were determination astatine the lawsuit that I went to, that immoderate of them person astir apt dabbled successful different rituals.

Zoë Schiffer: Extracurricular activities.

Lauren Goode: That's right.

Michael Calore: They've been to the psytrance rave and taken the molly, and talked astir their app.

Lauren Goode: Sure. And talked astir their app. Yeah, exactly. They're inactive talking astir their apps. And I don't adjacent deliberation that the 2 should needfully beryllium conflated. It's conscionable that those kinds of hobbies oregon practices thin to specify a definite facet of Silicon Valley culture, possibly much truthful than religion has.

Zoë Schiffer: I deliberation that that makes sense. There's a saying that I heard a batch successful chatting with radical who prosecute successful much of the drug-type pursuits, that these substances volition get you successful the room, but they won't fto you stay. So possibly religion lets you stay.

Lauren Goode: Oh, that's benignant of interesting. So it's similar you bash a guided ketamine travel and past you tumble down the artifact to the religion successful Dolores Park?

Zoë Schiffer: Yes, and?

Lauren Goode: Yes, and?

Michael Calore: Yes, and?

Lauren Goode: ACTS 17 doesn't look to beryllium pushing that away. What Michelle Stephens has said is that she feels similar the manufacture conscionable has excessively overmuch accent connected wealth and powerfulness and wealth, and these are my words, that those successful a consciousness are the much almighty drugs, and the much concerning drugs. And that religion provides a antithetic benignant of avenue to success, and that occurrence is that narration you person with God.

Zoë Schiffer: Alex Karp besides mentioned thing similar. He has said that, "You conscionable request capable wealth to not person to deliberation astir money, and that the different pursuits are much important."

Lauren Goode: Ah, right. So I'm assuming that means Alex Karp conscionable has conscionable capable wealth and helium gave the remainder of it away?

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah, for sure. For sure.

Michael Calore: Yeah, probably. Didn't ACTS 17 member, Garry Tan, Tweet astir this?

Lauren Goode: Yeah, helium did past year, and helium linked to the nonfiction that was written successful The San Francisco Standard. He said, "LSD and shrooms won't capable the God-shaped spread successful your heart. Guess what might?" I'm guessing the reply is God, right? Do I get an crystal pick cone for guessing correctly? Right. Do radical inactive bash LSD?

Michael Calore: Yes, radical inactive bash it.

Zoë Schiffer: Yep.

Lauren Goode: This is this however uncool I am, Uncanny Valley listeners.

Michael Calore: There's thing chill astir drugs, Lauren.

Lauren Goode: Okay. That's right, we were raised successful the D.A.R.E. era.

Michael Calore: Let's instrumentality different interruption and we'll travel close back. Welcome backmost to Uncanny Valley. We talked earlier astir the bully quest versus the atrocious quest. It sounds similar a sitcom, but it's cardinal to the doctrine of however the Christians that we're talking astir successful Silicon Valley attack the enactment that they do. What is simply a bully quest?

Lauren Goode: Yeah, and this borrows from gaming civilization too. When I deliberation astir a bully quest, I deliberation astir playing Legends of Zelda oregon something.

Michael Calore: Is it similar a broadside quest is simply a atrocious quest?

Lauren Goode: Yeah, right, exactly. You tin get sidetracked by a broadside quest, I deliberation is the idea. But Trae Stephens had written an article, on with an entrepreneur named Markie Wagner. It was published successful 2022, and it created this model for reasoning astir what you bash for a surviving and whether oregon not it falls, and wherever it falls connected the matrix. Is it a bully quest? Is it a atrocious quest? Is it thing that feels bully but is truly casual to bash and isn't solving a large problem? Is it thing that's hard but feels bad? Or is it something's hard to bash but feels bully due to the fact that you're fixing large problems? And the mode that Trae has described it, and besides immoderate of the peers successful his web who we've talked astir connected this show, is that if you're conscionable making different photograph app, you're a superb engineer, but you're utilizing your caput abstraction and your talents to physique a photograph app, it's astir apt not a bully quest. For immoderate reason, helium besides took purpose a fewer times astatine McKinsey Consultants during the lawsuit I went to. He conscionable said, "They conscionable benignant of amusement up connected your assemblage field and they prime immoderate of the champion and brightest minds and say, 'Go beryllium a absorption consultant.'" And helium considers that not to beryllium a bully quest. So Trae said during the ACTS 17 speech that I went to, "I'm virtually an arms dealer." And erstwhile helium said that, the assemblage benignant of laughed, and I deliberation radical were amazed by however candid helium was astir that, but that's what his institution makes. They marque weapons. And helium said, "It's an antithetic calling. It's not a calling for everyone, but it is my calling." And truthful helium was benignant of applying the connection oregon the vernacular of a vocation to what helium does for a living, and past benignant of putting that connected the bully quest portion of the matrix, due to the fact that it's a hard happening to bash and he's solving a hard problem. But helium is besides mentioned things similar manufacturing and advances successful medicine, and that determination are different things that you tin usage your talents for that are considered bully quests.

Michael Calore: Right. If we boil down the thought of a bully quest to thing that is bully for humanity and thing that promotes Christian values, I deliberation it's hard for a batch of radical to quadrate the information that you're doing bully successful the satellite with the information that you're gathering systems of sidesplitting people. Right?

Zoë Schiffer: But I deliberation that's wherefore the nationalism portion is truthful important to this, due to the fact that they're not saying, "We should beryllium doing bully for humanity." It seems similar a batch of these radical are saying, "We should beryllium doing bully for the United States of America."

Lauren Goode: Right. My understanding, based connected speechmaking Alex Carp's precise agelong effort successful The Atlantic, is that helium truly believes we should beryllium gathering up America arsenic a technological republic. And I deliberation that's what you're saying, Zoe.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. Which again, to Mike's point, it mightiness look similar these things aren't successful struggle unless you person that nationalistic space woven in.

Lauren Goode: It's interesting, due to the fact that erstwhile you deliberation astir the teachings of the Bible, you deliberation astir helping those little fortunate than you, helping the poor, welcoming radical in, being of service. So you don't needfully deliberation astir weapons. It whitethorn look similar it's incongruous with being of service. And I deliberation that that is simply a precise valid constituent to raise. My knowing of it, which is not a justification oregon an mentation for it, is successful listening to Trae Steven's speech astatine the Act 17 event, it seemed similar his mentation of gathering God's kingdom connected Earth was beauteous literal. It was, "What has God asked america to do? Thy kingdom come, thy volition beryllium done. We volition physique the kingdom." And that means virtually building. It makes maine deliberation of the Silicon Valley ethos around, "It's clip to build. Build, build, build. Make stuff."

Michael Calore: Yeah. And for a batch of radical who are not religious, what is cardinal to that ethos is that, "We're doing bully successful the world." And possibly for a Christian with that ethos, it's centered around, "We're doing God's volition by gathering these things, by making this our society." So, successful different words, you tin warrant a batch of things by saying, "Well, it's good due to the fact that we person God connected our side," to paraphrase Bob Dylan. That sounds similar a slippery slope to me.

Lauren Goode: I deliberation you are perfectly right. And Trae Stephens himself said, "I deliberation radical tin person themselves that thing is simply a bully quest." He was referring to idiosyncratic who came up to him and was pitching an NFT marketplace. That, to him, was not a bully quest. But yeah, I deliberation that's the thing. You tin person yourself that what you're doing is good, adjacent if you're harming radical successful immoderate way. And conscionable to propulsion it backmost adjacent further, what is 1 of the things we've heard from Silicon Valley entrepreneurs for decades now? What are they going to bash with the happening they're building? They're going to, what, alteration the world?

Michael Calore: Change the world.

Lauren Goode: Right. And they have, they proceed to. It's not ever successful a bully way, but who makes the motivation judgement of what's good?

Michael Calore: Justice has to play into it. People tin consciousness similar if they're delivering justness successful the world, past that's a bully thing. And possibly that's wherefore weapons systems consciousness similar a bully quest, due to the fact that it's like, "Well, there's bully guys and there's atrocious guys, and it's beauteous chopped and dry. And if we tin assistance eradicate the atrocious guys, past that's a bully quest." So that, successful a sense, is making the satellite a amended spot for radical of that mindset. But past again, who is to determine who is the bully guy, who is the atrocious guy? Also, I volition conscionable constituent retired astatine this infinitesimal that I deliberation Jesus Christ taught america that the champion mode to lick struggle is done nonviolent means. So, if Jesus was a pacifist, however would helium consciousness astir each of this? I don't know. I'm not Jesus.

Lauren Goode: Sounds similar you're acceptable to spell backmost to church, Mike.

Michael Calore: Maybe. I person a batch of questions. Maybe that's what religion is each about. It's astir answering these questions.

Lauren Goode: Zoe, however does this basal retired to you erstwhile you see this successful the discourse of your faith?

Zoë Schiffer: I deliberation it's truly interesting. I don't cognize how. I'm inactive reasoning done the Alex Karp arguments connected each of this, but I deliberation conscionable from a basal standpoint, that having religion arsenic 1 constituent of a larger benignant of beingness tin beryllium truly beneficial for people. And I deliberation determination is simply a occupation with a batch of radical feeling similar their lives are meaningless, and truthful to the grade that this tin assistance imbue their lives with meaning. Or punctual them to halt doing a occupation that feels soul-sucking and find thing that is much of a bully quest, thing that's much meaningful, I deliberation that's great. All of these things tin beryllium utilized successful antagonistic oregon affirmative ways, though that's intelligibly a judgement call, but I deliberation there's imaginable for good.

Lauren Goode: It'll beryllium absorbing to spot whether oregon not this is thing that truly takes basal successful Silicon Valley, speech from proceeding straight from pastors oregon radical successful the community, "Oh, it seems similar there's increasing interest, attendance is rising." Those are each surely beardown signs. But Silicon Valley has been going done this large displacement implicit the past fewer years, politically, ideologically, artificially, if you privation to propulsion artificial quality into that too. And I'm conscionable truthful funny to spot wherever religion dovetails with that.

Michael Calore: Yeah. Yeah, and gathering God's kingdom, what that looks like-

Lauren Goode: What that looks like.

Michael Calore: ... for here.

Lauren Goode: Is that AI? I mean, really.

Michael Calore: Is our adjacent God AI?

Lauren Goode: I don't deliberation she is.

Zoë Schiffer: I spot what you did there. I liked it.

Lauren Goode: Thank you.

Michael Calore: Thanks for listening to Uncanny Valley. If you similar what you heard today, marque definite to travel our amusement and complaint it connected your podcast app of choice. If you'd similar to get successful interaction with america astir immoderate questions, comments, amusement suggestions, oregon suggestions for which churches we should attend, constitute to america astatine [email protected]. Today's amusement is produced by Kyana Moghadam, Amar Lal astatine Macrosound mixed this episode. Paige Oamek information checked this episode. Jordan Bell is our Executive Producer, Katie Drummond is WIRED's Global Editorial Director, and Chris Bannon is the Head of Global Audio.