Rivian’s CEO on Tesla’s Cybertruck, Ferrari’s Luce, and What Happens If the R2 Fails

RJ Scaringe got his PhD from MIT studying interior combustion engines. Then helium founded a institution to marque them obsolete. In 2009, caller retired of grad school, helium launched what would go Rivian. The institution spent astir a decennary successful stealth mode earlier arriving astatine the 2018 LA Auto Show with 2 electrical rides cipher had seen coming.

The road, however, hasn't been easy. Rivian mislaid $3.6 cardinal successful 2025, and has burned done astir $25 cardinal successful the past 8 years. It has spent much wealth implicit the aforesaid play than astir each different axenic EV maker. Rivian's IPO was the largest worldwide successful 2021, and 1 of the largest successful US history, wrong days valuing the institution astatine implicit $100 billion. Its banal has dropped from a precocious of $130 to astir $16. Since the R1 went connected merchantability successful 2021, Rivian has sold 175,000 cars. In the aforesaid time, Tesla has sold 8 million.

But successful 2024, Volkswagen Group committed up to $5.8 cardinal to co-develop bundle and electrical architecture exertion with Rivian successful a immense associated venture. This year, Uber announced it volition put up to $1.25 cardinal successful Rivian to physique and deploy up to 50,000 afloat autonomous robotaxis.

Regardless, the institution needs its caller R2 SUV to work. Not conscionable sell, but merchantability successful ample numbers.

I sat down with Scaringe for a candid, wide-ranging treatment connected what happens if the R2 fails, wherefore the R1 launched with dead-end tech, however to vie with China, the Cybertruck’s failure, and the virtuousness of buttons wrong cars. But we started connected easier ground: his thoughts connected the astir polarizing EV of 2026. (This interrogation has been edited for magnitude and clarity.)

JEREMY WHITE: What bash you deliberation astir Ferrari’s Luce?

RJ SCARINGE: The mode Jony [Ive] and Marc [Newson] attack plan is incredibly intentional, truthful there's not a determination connected that car that’s unintentional. Through that lens, you person to similar look astatine it successful a antithetic light. It's decidedly antithetic than what radical were expecting.

Do you similar the Luce, though?

Would I bargain it? I don't ain a Ferrari. There are things astir it I truly like. Parts of the interior are conscionable phenomenal, similar however beautifully good executed the haptics, the switches, the buttons are. You tin spot Jony's fingerprints each implicit it.

It’s conscionable large to spot much EV choice, because, peculiarly successful the United States, there’s specified a void. About 50 oregon 60 percent of the marketplace stock is 2 vehicles: the Model 3 and the Model Y. These person been connected the roadworthy for a while, yet they outsell everything else. If we privation to electrify, we request to person a batch much prime than conscionable those two.

Have you been amazed astatine the Cybertruck’s failure?

You sometimes instrumentality large swings with thing that’s wild, and they decidedly took a precise large swing. It’s turned retired it’s not a mass-market product, but it was beauteous wide from the opening that it wasn’t going to be. It was very, precise niche successful presumption of immoderate of the plan decisions and merchandise trade-offs [Tesla] made. Cybertruck is the nonstop other of the Model 3 and Model Y. Those aren’t products that propulsion anybody away. I applaud the courageousness successful doing a merchandise similar that, but it's going to extremity up precise niche for them.

Polestar’s successful a spot of a mess, isn't it?

To beryllium an at-scale player, the terms needs to beryllium right, the exertion integration needs to beryllium solid, and the wide bundle has to beryllium compelling to a wide capable audience: things similar acceleration, efficiency, packaging. Then there's the intangible. Does the plan person capable involvement that it draws radical in, but astatine the aforesaid clip inviting and wide capable to entreaty to ample numbers?

That is the situation Polestar has. They haven’t gotten that operation rather right. The cars look great. I don’t deliberation it’s a plan issue. But I bash deliberation the full package—price, content, features—just hasn’t connected with consumers successful the mode that we anticipation R2 does, oregon surely similar a Model Y has connected. The information that Tesla vehicles person specified important marketplace stock [in the US] is not a reflection of a steadfast market. It’s a reflection of a wildly underserved market.

So overmuch is riding connected R2. What's the program if it fails?

We physique bundle in-house, electronics in-house. We physique our ain in-house silicon. We plan and physique each of our motors, each our ain gearboxes, each of our powerfulness electronics—everything wholly in-house. And if Rivian stayed a 50,000-unit-a-year company, that would beryllium an extraordinarily costly mode to bash that.

We person our ain income locations. We've built retired our ain work network. Many billions of dollars person flowed into that. We ain parts distribution, we ain conveyance distribution. We person elephantine parking tons and conveyance prep centers crossed the country. We built each that contemplating R2.

And truthful that means, starring up to R2, we spent a batch of money. It’s not an accident. It’s an intention. It’s the plan. But the program is to beryllium a ample company. The program is for R2 to work. So if R2 doesn’t work, if R2 were to beryllium a flop, we would person to truly instrumentality a measurement backmost and truly reconfigure the business. To person a 6,000-person engineering squad to merchantability 50,000 vehicles conscionable wouldn't marque sense. To beryllium vertically integrating heavy down to the silicon arsenic we person would beryllium intolerable to rationalize.

So, absolutely, the aboriginal of the institution arsenic we’ve designed it depends connected R2’s success. The extremity was to beryllium a large company, truthful the volition was for R2 to turn significantly. But to hole for a merchandise that’s going to beryllium precocious volume, we had to marque each these decisions to enactment it.

One happening we've done that’s besides been adjuvant is that the Normal installation [in Illinois] has 155,000 units of capacity. We’ve started operation connected the follow-on facility, a works successful Georgia that’s going to beryllium built crossed 2 phases. Originally it was going to beryllium 200,000, but we made the determination to summation signifier 1 due to the fact that we’ve seen specified affirmative absorption astir the product. So signifier 1 is present 300,000 units, and that volition enactment different variants [including the R3] and enlargement to Europe.

You ain your implicit autonomy stack, and that’s not portion of the VW deal. Licensing this tech to different OEMs could beryllium lucrative for Rivian. Will that go much important than selling cars?

It’s an end. So successful a satellite wherever R2s are selling truly well, we’d inactive prosecute this. A satellite wherever Rivians are not selling well, we’d inactive prosecute this. It conscionable becomes really captious successful a satellite without R2. But we're playing to win. I walk a tiny fraction of my clip adjacent considering what things would look similar if we didn’t ramp successful the mode we’re moving towards.

Your Gen 1 autonomy launched successful the R1s is present a write-off. Early customers are unhappy astir that. They paid $80K for thing that’s not truly susceptible anymore. Why should a lawsuit buying an R2 contiguous spot that your existent bundle won’t beryllium the adjacent happening that you picture arsenic a dormant end?

R1 Gen 1 launched extremity of 2021. The architecture was a premix of things, immoderate of our cameras, but chiefly a Mobileye-based system. We realized arsenic we were launching that it was the incorrect approach. A precise antithetic attack was emerging, which has present go truthful good understood due to the fact that of LLMs: this thought of utilizing transformers to bash encoding and to beryllium capable to physique precise analyzable models that correspond quality understanding.

So astir the aforesaid clip we launched R1, we wholly reset. We realized that what we had was not going to scale. We recruited a squad to plan a [new] strategy astir a information flywheel, and thatch it with accumulated miles. That launched connected Gen 2 successful precocious 2024. When it launched, the features were similar OK-ish. It did road lane keep, but it didn’t person a batch of data. The information flywheel started to rotation up arsenic we enactment much Gen 2 vehicles connected the road.

What we’re launching with R2 is really an in-between step; amended than what’s connected R1 today, but not what’s going to beryllium coming to the R2. Internally we telephone it [Gen] 2.5. Our coming Gen 3 for autonomy uses in-house silicon, truthful it’s 800 trillion operations per 2nd per chip. We person 2 of those, truthful 1,600 successful total. That’s a 4x summation implicit the Nvidia-based solution we person today. And it has amended cameras, and it has a lidar.

This in-between measurement is inactive going to beryllium precise capable. It’s the aforesaid model, moving what we telephone LDM, our ample driving model, that volition turn to point-to-point supervised. You tin get successful the car, benignant successful the address, it’ll thrust you anywhere. But getting to eyes off—unsupervised Level 3 and past Level 4—[the motorboat R2] volition not beryllium susceptible of. We’ve been cautious to beryllium precise wide connected that.

But if the archetypal R2s are Gen 2, oregon 2.5, wherefore should radical bargain these and not hold for the Gen 3 versions of the R2 with amended cameras, lidar, the caller in-house silicon and Level 3 capability?

Why does idiosyncratic bargain an iPhone 17? People bargain an iPhone 17 afloat knowing there’s gonna beryllium an iPhone 18. Why bargain an 18 erstwhile you cognize determination volition beryllium a 19? You could speech to Siri successful 2013. It wasn’t precise good. You could speech to Alexa successful 2018. It wasn’t precise good. Now we’re successful a satellite of existent AI, highly analyzable knowing of truly analyzable systems. Autonomy is going to make faster than nine is acceptable for. In galore ways, 1 of the challenges we person connected autonomy is, arsenic overmuch arsenic we’re putting effort and clip into it, it’s inactive not a large acquisition criteria for people. Maybe 20 to 25 percent of customers truly wage attraction to it.

One happening that does fig successful car purchasing prime is the knobs and buttons. Your caput of tech thinks dependable power is the future, but you conscionable mentioned however you emotion the Luce’s buttons.

On dependable it’s going to beryllium a journey. We’re bullish connected voice, but it’s not replacing UI.

It is replacing switchgear, though.

To an extent. It’s astir apt 40 cardinal decisions to marque a vehicle. There are truthful galore that customers volition ne'er wage attraction to. But past there’s a bunch, not millions, but thousands, that are precise overmuch lawsuit facing.

There are going to beryllium decisions we marque that immoderate radical don’t like. One of those, admittedly, is the determination to beryllium precise multi-touch heavy. It wasn’t an accident, it was a principled determination to person a precise precocious grade of updatability successful the conveyance wherever features tin evolve. But connected R2 we besides decided we wanted to person immoderate mechanical enactment that was inactive bundle defined. We developed the haptic wheels.

Yes, they truly are good. [The R2 has a brace of “Halo Wheels” connected the steering instrumentality that supply haptic clicks arsenic you propulsion and rotation them to navigate the settings connected the display.]

These person feedback, but arsenic overmuch arsenic it feels similar it’s clicking, it’s each software. This allows america to set that implicit time. There are going to inactive beryllium customers who similar a clump of buttons. I deliberation the Luce did a truly absorbing occupation of trying to research multi-touch and buttons together. I really deliberation the car volition extremity up being rather influential connected however radical bash interiors.

Rivian has precise precocious lawsuit restitution but, paradoxically, precise debased reliability ratings. A neat trick. Which would you prefer: a reliable car oregon evangelical customers?

Oh, for sure, we'd alternatively person a super-connected lawsuit base. But the extremity is to physique a highly reliable car. Part of the situation connected that information is it’s a lagging indicator. That information is built disconnected of 2021 to 2023 R1s.

When you look astatine Toyota’s score, it’s not reflecting Toyota’s archetypal 3 models it launched successful the US, it’s reflecting the past mates of years. We deliberation R2 is going to correspond a important measurement up successful our show successful reliability.

Xiaomi announced it was making cars successful 2021, the aforesaid twelvemonth you launched R1. It past released its archetypal car successful 2023. That’s an enormously accelerated turnaround. When you motorboat successful Europe you’ll beryllium going toe-to-toe with the Chinese makers. How volition you compete?

What has happened successful China is they started arsenic afloat capitalized businesses. Xiaomi was already a precise palmy tech institution with a precise beardown currency flow. But I don't privation to disregard the spot of what they’re doing. We ain a mates of their vehicles. Very impressive. The merchandise is otherwise positioned, truthful that matters. But the crushed we ain Xiaomi vehicles isn’t due to the fact that we’re selling against them today, it’s due to the fact that we person to vie with them from a tech constituent of presumption connected our ain products erstwhile we spell to Europe.

Importantly, our tech stack is really already starting to acquisition competing with the Chinese. The archetypal deployment is successful the Volkswagen ID.1 [which volition usage Rivian tech], truthful that’s a $20,000 car, 1 of the lowest-cost EVs successful Europe, but it has to vie against the BYD low-cost EVs. The associated task has forced america to marque definite our tech successful Europe is close determination against China. So we're moving with the Volkswagen Group, including the sub-brands Porsche, Audi, and truthful on.

But these precise brands are struggling to vie themselves.

That underpins a immense portion of our deal. Note that the archetypal merchandise we’re doing astatine Volkswagen is not a merchandise from North America. It’s a car that has to vie against China. A car built with Western tech, not Chinese tech. Interestingly, Volkswagen besides partners with XPeng, and of people we extremity up saying, “Well, however does our tech stack up to that?” And truthful we consciousness truly assured successful the tech.

Where the West—North America and Europe—cannot vie contiguous is connected cost.

With that successful mind, you're charging $2,500 for Rivian’s autonomous features. How agelong bash you deliberation you’ll beryllium capable to complaint truthful overmuch for thing others, similar BYD, are giving distant free?

I don’t know. I honestly don’t know. In a satellite wherever there’s a precise tiny fig of radical that make autonomous capabilities, it volition apt inactive transportation immoderate complaint oregon premium. Once capable companies person developed it, what you tin complaint volition go overmuch lower. But successful either script it’s precise important. Where it becomes free, past it becomes a indispensable constituent to merchantability vehicles.

I deliberation this volition go a diagnostic that’s embedded successful the acquisition price. Do you retrieve erstwhile we utilized to wage for airbags? There was a clip wherever it was an option. Now it's conscionable successful the car. So, I deliberation determination is simply a precise wide lawsuit that this could hap [to autonomous features], but it doesn’t marque them little important.

It’s massively important. It’s conscionable whether you tin inactive complaint $2,500 for it.

Well, we tin today. Just similar you could successful 1991 connected airbags. If you can, you should—if it supports gathering your business, gathering your technology.

Finally, I cognize you’ve lone conscionable launched the R2, but the radical privation to know: When volition we get the R3? The Georgia works isn’t afloat funded yet. Will this clasp things up?

We bash emotion to spot everyone’s excitement astir R3, which volition beryllium an unthinkable vehicle. But R3 volition travel aft R2. We’re focused connected ramping up accumulation and delivering R2.

We’re making accelerated advancement connected the Georgia facility, and we’re connected people to statesman producing R2s connected the enactment by the extremity 2028. Our program is for 300,000 Rivians to beryllium built per twelvemonth successful Georgia successful that archetypal signifier of construction.