How a Government Shutdown Would Help Elon Musk

WIRED Senior Editor Leah Feiger joins Global Editorial Director Katie Drummond to explicate wherefore Elon Musk mightiness really privation a authorities shutdown. Plus, WIRED’s Emily Mullin joins for an update connected misinformation surrounding the latest measles outbreaks successful the United States.

Articles mentioned successful this episode: 
Elon Musk Has Wanted the Government Shutdown by Jake Lahut, Leah Feiger, and Vittoria Elliott
This Is How Measles Kills by Emily Mullin
The Worst 7 Years successful Boeing’s History—and the Man Who Won’t Stop Fighting for Answers by Lauren Smiley

You tin travel Katie Drummond connected Bluesky astatine @katie-drummond, Leah Feiger connected Bluesky astatine @leahfeiger, and Emily Mullin connected Bluesky astatine @emilymullin. Write to america astatine [email protected].

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Transcript

Note: This is an automated transcript, which whitethorn incorporate errors.

Katie Drummond: Welcome to WIRED's Uncanny Valley. I'm WIRED's Global Editorial Director Katie Drummond. Today connected the show, wherefore Elon Musk wants the authorities shutdown, and the authorities of measles successful the United States. I'm joined contiguous by WIRED's Senior Editor Leah Feiger. Welcome backmost to Uncanny Valley, Leah.

Leah Feiger: Thank you truthful overmuch for having me. Love to beryllium back.

Katie Drummond: Now, Leah, you are backmost for a precise bully reason, which is that earlier contiguous you and your squad broke a fascinating and a precise consequential communicative astir the looming authorities shutdown, and wherefore Elon Musk has really wanted this shutdown to happen. Give america the latest. Walk america done this reporting.

Leah Feiger: There is simply a imaginable authorities shutdown that could hap arsenic soon arsenic Friday. Basically, Republicans close present successful Congress are trying to unit done a continuing resolution, a CR, that would widen authorities funding. It wouldn't widen it forever, it would widen it to September. But buying Congress and Republicans and Trump a small spot much time. Trump has been giving immoderate precise full-throated encouragement to his party, I should say, to ballot for this CR and to debar a shutdown. Our reporting ran successful nonstop opposition to that. That Trump's arguably main lieutenant close present and collaborator Elon Musk has really been expressing a beauteous superior tendency for a authorities shutdown, adjacent arsenic Trump has been saying that helium does not privation one. Not lone does Musk privation a authorities shutdown, an purpose that obviously, arsenic I conscionable said, runs wholly contrary to Trump, but it's partially due to the fact that it would marque it a batch easier to destruct the jobs of hundreds of thousands of national workers. Essentially, achieving what would beryllium a imperishable shutdown.

Katie Drummond: Explain what you really mean by that. I conjecture locomotion america done what happens successful the lawsuit of a authorities shutdown. These threats oregon the conception of a looming authorities shutdown, I consciousness similar we perceive astir that each the time. I retrieve past year, proceeding astir it respective times, that we're connected the verge of a authorities shutdown. It's ever averted. But what happens successful the lawsuit that the US authorities shuts down? And wherefore does that really marque it easier for Elon Musk, oregon DOGE, oregon anybody other who wants to laic disconnected hundreds of thousands of national workers, wherefore does that marque it easier for them to really bash that?

Leah Feiger: Absolutely. Let maine cognize if you person immoderate questions here.

Katie Drummond: Oh, I will.

Leah Feiger: Because truthful overmuch of this is truly thorny. But for the casual worldly that we are precise assured about, a authorities shutdown is fundamentally galore national authorities agencies and programs volition fundamentally beryllium enactment connected ice. Employees get classified into indispensable oregon non-essential. Essential services usually see folks successful Defense. FBI for example, they volition inactive beryllium working. But scientists, and workers successful the SEC, and National Park Services. Pretty overmuch astir authorities functions that you, Katie, are sitting present reasoning about-

Katie Drummond: Right.

Leah Feiger: ... those are going to beryllium connected ice. Every azygous bureau has its ain shutdown plan. Even the White House gets hit. At least, it has successful the past shutdowns. In 2018-2019 shutdown during Trump's archetypal term, thing similar 60% of staffers successful the Executive Office of the President were really furloughed.

Katie Drummond: Wow.

Leah Feiger: But yeah, don't worry. It's successful the constitution that the president gets paid regardless. Just successful lawsuit you were concerned.

Katie Drummond: All of these national workers who are furloughed would beryllium unpaid?

Leah Feiger: It depends connected the benignant of worker, but a batch of them won't beryllium paid until aft the shutdown would end.

Katie Drummond: Got it.

Leah Feiger: It's complicated. Obviously, we person gone done galore authorities shutdowns before, but what you started getting astatine is this is incredibly antithetic due to the fact that connected Elon Musk.

Katie Drummond: Right.

Leah Feiger: Because of DOGE, and due to the fact that they person been liable for the elimination of positions for tens of thousands of authorities workers already. Him talking astir removing these non-essential workers before, galore who are doing beauteous captious tasks. If you are acrophobic astir listeria successful your deli meat, arsenic I support getting reminded by Mom, shout-out to Mom, this is simply a existent thing. Those folks won't beryllium working. The mode that this would hap is that erstwhile national employees person been furloughed for much than 30 days ... This would mean that if a authorities shutdown, A, happened, and B, this shutdown lasted longer than 30 days, than that furlough really becomes taxable to a RIF, a simplification successful force. In our nonfiction that came retired today, we talked with Nick Bednar, prof astatine the University of Minnesota School of Law, who is an implicit adept connected this and was truly adjuvant successful walking done each this. This could beryllium challenged, but this does mean that aft 30 days, these furloughed authorities employees are automatically kicked into RIF procedures. Between that, and betwixt truthful galore superior functions of the authorities that'll conscionable not beryllium happening successful a shutdown, there's a batch of leeway for Musk and his squad to get escaped of a batch of people.

Katie Drummond: By RIF, we're talking astir simplification successful unit essentially.

Leah Feiger: Yes, yes.

Katie Drummond: That's a firm word utilized to picture a layoff essentially.

Leah Feiger: Yeah.

Katie Drummond: Leah, it whitethorn beryllium excessively premature to speculate beyond that, and evidently we're getting into if this happens, and past if that happens, and past if that happens. But erstwhile we spell into that post-30 time scenario, wherever national workers who are furloughed are past taxable to RIF procedures, what does that really mean? Do these radical person jobs again erstwhile the authorities reopens?

Leah Feiger: Well, that's what's a small spot tricky close present and I privation to truly accent is that each of the experts that we're talking to are conscionable like, "We haven't seen this before." There's really a batch of conflicting guidance, successful a way. We cognize that this 30 time marker exists, and we cognize that this could hap if we deed the 30-day marker. It has not happened before, but due to the fact that of the governmental concern arsenic it is close present and the mode that Musk has very, precise candidly talked astir reducing the national authorities workforce, a batch of experts are truly acrophobic that that's the way that we're going to spell down.

Katie Drummond: Wow. That is stunning arsenic a imaginable scenario.

Leah Feiger: Yeah. I privation to beryllium clear, again, this is hundreds of thousands of people.

Katie Drummond: Right.

Leah Feiger: I can't truly ideate what House and Senate Democrats are reasoning close now.

Katie Drummond: Let's backmost up for a second. We cognize that Elon Musk, from each of our reporting, has espoused this thought that possibly a authorities shutdown is simply a bully idea, possibly we should spell up and bash this. What happens now? We're talking connected Tuesday, March 11th. We're up against a deadline of Friday, March 14th. What should radical beryllium watching for implicit the adjacent 3 days?

Leah Feiger: A mates of cardinal things. House Republicans are going to ballot today, truthful we're going to find retired if they person passed the CR, and if it goes from the House to the Senate. It's precise imaginable that it will. It's besides imaginable that it won't. There are Republicans retired determination that are defying Trump's petition present and Johnson's petition here. This punctuation from Thomas Massey, a Republican Congressman, continues to termination me. He tweeted this implicit the play and I request to work this retired large due to the fact that I honestly deliberation astir it possibly each 30 minutes. "Unless I get a lobotomy Monday that causes maine to hide what I've witnessed the past 12 years, I'll beryllium a nary connected the CR this week."

Katie Drummond: Wow.

Leah Feiger: Yeah! Trump is going aft him beauteous hard close now. He's getting a batch of unit from colleagues successful the House. That's the House stuff. We're going to spot what happens. Is helium going to get convinced? Then erstwhile we caput to the Senate, we request 60 votes. If it makes it to the Senate, Democrats, if they clasp out, volition beryllium blamed for holding out.

Katie Drummond: Got it.

Leah Feiger: That's already the connection that is being discussed. Which, successful my opinion, Republicans power the White House, they power the House, and they power the Senate, truthful I don't cognize if that's wholly fair. But that is what's percolating close now. Democrats, for the astir part, person been very, precise staunch astir not supporting this CR. There's a batch successful determination that they don't hold with. And possibly astir importantly, they privation much oversight for Musk and DOGE. In bid to conscionable fully, full-heartedly enactment a CR similar this, a batch of them person implied feels similar a small spot of a given.

Katie Drummond: There is this precise bizarre imaginable scenario, imaginable script connected the horizon. Just to beryllium clear, this is speculative. That Democrats clasp retired connected voting for this CR due to the fact that they entity to truthful overmuch of what's successful it, due to the fact that they privation much oversight of Musk and DOGE, and successful truthful doing, they fundamentally springiness Elon Musk precisely what helium has been asking for.

Leah Feiger: Yeah. Yes.

Katie Drummond: Leah, ever a bully clip having you on. Thank you truthful overmuch for joining maine connected Uncanny Valley today.

Leah Feiger: Thank you truthful overmuch for having me, Katie.

Katie Drummond: All right, we're going to instrumentality a abbreviated break. When we travel back, we'll perceive from WIRED's Emily Mullin astir the measles. Welcome backmost to Uncanny Valley. I'm joined present by WIRED's Emily Mullin. Emily, invited to Uncanny Valley.

Emily Mullin: Thanks for having me, Katie.

Katie Drummond: Emily, there's been a batch happening successful this state this year. Among different things though, and I deliberation important for america to item present and connected WIRED arsenic you've been doing with your reporting, are outbreaks of measles. Along with those outbreaks, we are seeing a batch of misinformation, atrocious wellness advice, atrocious recommendations circulating astir the illness. Can you commencement by conscionable level acceptable with each of us, springiness america the deal, what is going connected with measles successful the United States close now?

Emily Mullin: Right. There's a increasing measles outbreak on the Texas-New Mexico borderline that has truthful acold resulted successful much than 250 cases and 2 deaths. One of them successful a child, and the different successful an adult. Both were unvaccinated. A fewer twelve radical successful Texas and 1 idiosyncratic successful New Mexico person been hospitalized. Just for comparison, past year, successful 2024, 285 radical successful the US came down with measles and that was for the full year.

Katie Drummond: Wow.

Emily Mullin: 40% of those required hospitalization. In Texas, astir of those cases are successful Gaines County, wherever 222 radical person travel down with the virus. The outbreak has present dispersed to a neighboring region successful New Mexico, wherever determination are 33 cases. But those numbers could apt beryllium higher erstwhile this podcast airs. The immense bulk of those cases, again, are successful unvaccinated individuals.

Katie Drummond: You published a communicative connected WIRED.com earlier today, it's a large portion with a terrifying headline, This Is How Measles Kills. Tell america a small spot astir this microorganism and however it effects the quality body.

Emily Mullin: Yeah. Well, we felt the request to constitute this communicative due to the fact that we're seeing a batch of misinformation connected societal media coming from blimpish and anti-vaccine accounts that are truly downplaying the severity of the microorganism and promoting mendacious claims, specified arsenic the kid successful Texas died of different causes. We wanted to beryllium precise wide successful this communicative astir the dangers of measles and this is not conscionable a rash. Everybody thinks of the diagnostic rash that comes on with measles, and that really usually comes aft the archetypal signs, which is usually a fever, runny nose, that benignant of thing. It tin often lucifer the flu. One of the reasons wherefore measles is truthful unsafe is that it tin induce thing called immune amnesia. The measles microorganism kills these precise important cells successful the assemblage that retrieve anterior infections, they assistance combat aboriginal infections. Without these cells, it tin truly permission radical susceptible to different infections for respective weeks and months to come. Two of the precise terrible complications of measles are pneumonia and encephalitis, which is simply a swelling of the brain. Both of those conditions tin some pb to death.

Katie Drummond: Terrifying. Speaking of terrifying, you talked a small spot astir the misinformation, the bad, unsafe wellness proposal circulating retired there. This feels similar the close infinitesimal to bring up Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Secretary of Health and Human Services for the United States government, is 1 of the astir high-profile proponents of immoderate of that misinformation. As you reported, helium has described cod liver lipid arsenic showing, quote, "Very, precise bully results successful measles patients," among different statements he's made. He's besides been precise noncommittal successful presumption of emphasizing the value of vaccination to forestall measles outbreaks similar precisely the 1 that we are seeing close present successful Texas. Talk to america a small spot much astir RFK Jr. and however helium has contributed to this monolithic surge successful misinformation astir measles.

Emily Mullin: Yeah. Kennedy, successful Trump's archetypal furniture meeting, erstwhile asked by a newsman astir the measles outbreak, helium said that measles outbreaks successful the US are not that unusual. Which is true, but this outbreak successful peculiar is antithetic due to the fact that we person seen these 2 deaths. I should constituent retired the kid successful Texas who died was the archetypal that we've seen successful 10 years.

Katie Drummond: Wow.

Emily Mullin: The archetypal decease from measles we've seen successful 10 years. The Health Department successful Texas confirmed that this kid had nary underlying conditions. We don't cognize what the complications were. But Kennedy wrote an op-ed for Fox News successful which helium encouraged parents to speech to their pediatricians astir the MMR vaccine and said that this is simply a idiosyncratic choice. But helium didn't truly travel retired and promote vaccination. I deliberation a batch of wellness experts were disappointed successful that op-ed due to the fact that it was truly an accidental for scope an assemblage that could beryllium receptive to this connection astatine a clip erstwhile we are seeing this large measles outbreak. And yes, he's besides made references to cod liver oil. That is due to the fact that cod liver lipid is precocious successful vitamin A. Vitamin A is often fixed to children who are hospitalized with measles due to the fact that there's immoderate probe showing that the measles microorganism tin deplete levels of vitamin A successful the body. It is recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics and the World Health Organization to springiness to children who are sick with measles. But there's truly nary probe astir cod liver oil, and besides cod liver lipid supplements depending connected the benignant of supplement oregon the marque of supplement, tin really person much vitamin A successful it than is recommended for the regular dose. If you springiness a kid excessively overmuch of vitamin A oregon cod liver oil, they tin get truly sick. This is thing that wellness experts, pediatricians are truly not recommending that radical springiness to their children close present for measles. It does not forestall measles successful immoderate way. It surely cannot cure measles. It has nary antiviral properties. There is nary antiviral attraction disposable for measles. The lone effectual mode to forestall measles is the measles, mumps, and rubella, oregon MMR vaccine.

Katie Drummond: Got it. Wow. We're successful the midst of this outbreak that we talked astir astatine the top. What happens now? Once a measles outbreak is retired there, is spreading among a community, however bash you incorporate thing similar that? What adjacent steps would beryllium indispensable for the United States to really get this outbreak nether control?

Emily Mullin: Yeah. Well, this is simply a large question. We person seen measles outbreaks before. You mightiness retrieve that determination was a ample outbreak of measles backmost successful 2019 that was concentrated successful the Orthodox Jewish communities successful New York. It truly took this strategical boots connected the crushed effort of going into the community, combating misinformation, providing culturally delicate accusation astir the benefits of the MMR vaccine to get rates up there. Because again, there's nary effectual attraction for measles. This takes isolation, vaccination due to the fact that to beryllium clear, we're seeing these measles happening due to the fact that of declining vaccination rates nationwide. People are not trusting of vaccines close now. For measles, the vaccination complaint successful a assemblage needs to beryllium precise high, 95%, to forestall outbreaks due to the fact that it is truthful contagious. In Gaines County, Texas, which has the bulk of cases close now, the kindergarten measles vaccination complaint is 82%.

Katie Drummond: Wow.

Emily Mullin: That is wherefore we're seeing specified a dense attraction of cases there. But successful New Mexico, successful Lee County wherever astir of the New Mexico cases are happening, measles vaccination rates are rather higher, astir 94%. But again, this is simply a precise contagious virus. We truly request those rates up to astir 95%. That's what epidemiologists accidental is truly needed for extortion a community.

Katie Drummond: Just to underscore this 1 past time. The MMR vaccine, however effectual is that vaccine astatine preventing measles successful a fixed person?

Emily Mullin: One dose of the vaccine is 93% effectual against measles, and 2 doses is 97% effective. That archetypal dose is recommended for children usually astir ages 12 to 15 months. Then that 2nd dose is typically fixed erstwhile a kid is betwixt 4 and six-years-old.

Katie Drummond: Got it. We're also, again, conscionable talking astir the astir susceptible radical successful a community, babies, young children, successful presumption of hazard for contracting measles. Certainly seems similar vaccines are a amended enactment than cod liver oil, if I whitethorn accidental so. We're going to instrumentality a abbreviated break. Thank you, Emily. When we travel back, what you request to work connected WIRED today. Welcome backmost to Uncanny Valley. I'm Katie Drummond, WIRED's planetary editorial director. I'm joined by WIRED's Emily Mullin. Now, Emily, earlier I fto you go, I really privation to transportation you and our listeners connected a communicative that everybody should work connected WIRED.com today, different than the fantabulous stories we mentioned successful this episode. That is simply a diagnostic that we published contiguous by WIRED Contributor Lauren Smiley. Lauren is an unthinkable journalist, an unthinkable communicative writer. She did a deep-dive into Boeing. If you are not already terrified of aerial question fixed everything going connected with the FAA close present and everything that has gone connected with Boeing successful the past respective years, this communicative won't marque you consciousness better. I accidental that arsenic idiosyncratic who takes a batch of Xanax earlier I get connected a flight. This communicative volition marque you consciousness much tense astir the information of aerial travel. But it is this riveting communicative told done the eyes of a antheral who really worked astatine Boeing for galore years, had a batch of concerns astir information wrong Boeing manufacturing facilities, information of the aircrafts, and often sounded the alarm wrong the company. Until helium yet near the company, and lone past started to spot unspeakable level crashes, superior incidents with Boeing aircrafts that helium had been successful portion liable for really manufacturing and creating. It's each astir his travel arsenic a whistleblower, and however helium has since leaving Boeing and becoming a whistleblower, helium has really go this focal constituent for the families of radical who mislaid their lives successful Boeing level crashes. He has go a focal constituent for different whistleblowers who person travel guardant with damaging accusation astir what's going connected wrong the company. It truly is the communicative of 1 man, his sanction is Ed Pierson, and his ngo that continues done to contiguous to uncover what helium describes arsenic superior missteps and misdeeds connected the portion of Boeing that impact each of our information erstwhile we get into an aircraft. It's an unthinkable story. Again, it volition not marque you consciousness good, but it is simply a very, precise bully read. I powerfully urge everybody giving it a look. Emily, I deliberation you really said that you had work this communicative earlier today, truthful I fishy you hold with me.

Emily Mullin: Yes. I didn't privation to alert earlier speechmaking this story, and I don't privation to alert now.

Katie Drummond: That is wholly fair, I could not hold more. But it's 1 of those stories that you are amended disconnected and much well-informed, and person a richer representation of Boeing and each of the radical surrounding it, including this whistleblower, aft you work it. Again, it's not going to marque you consciousness great, but it's an important portion of journalism. Much recognition to Lauren for each of the digging and reporting that she did to bring this communicative to beingness for WIRED. Emily, convey you truthful overmuch for joining maine today.

Emily Mullin: Thanks for having me.

Katie Drummond: All right, that's our amusement for today. We volition nexus to each the stories we talked astir contiguous successful the amusement notes. Make definite to cheque retired Thursday's occurrence of Uncanny Valley, wherever we look astatine the authorities and aboriginal of self-driving cars. If you similar what you heard today, marque definite to travel our amusement and complaint it connected your podcast app of choice. If you'd similar to get successful interaction with immoderate of america for questions, comments, oregon amusement suggestions, constitute to america astatine [email protected]. This occurrence was edited by Kyana Moghadam. Amar Lal astatine Macro Sound mixed this episode. Jake Lummus is our workplace engineer. Jordan Bell is our enforcement producer. Conde Nast's caput of planetary audio is Chris Bannon. I'm Katie Drummond, WIRED's planetary editorial director. Goodbye.