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Just arsenic the Founding Fathers mightiness person anticipated (had they been microdosing portion drafting the Declaration of Independence), the American republic volition observe its two-hundred-and-fiftieth day adjacent period with a afloat paper of mixed-martial-arts brawls connected the South Lawn of the White House. Weigh-ins volition instrumentality spot astatine the Lincoln Memorial. The nighttime of mayhem is besides meant to observe the eightieth day of the President of the United States, a longtime instrumentality of the athletics who archetypal announced the lawsuit astir a twelvemonth agone astatine the Iowa State Fairgrounds. Its shaper is Donald Trump’s “one of a kind” person and loyal supporter, Dana White, the irrepressible C.E.O. of the Ultimate Fighting Championship.
White is the latest impresario to nett enormously from the fascination that quality beings person ever had with watching different quality beings fight. Like Tex Rickard, who made a luck promoting Jack Dempsey’s bouts successful the twenties, oregon Don King, the high-haired gonif whose epoch spanned Muhammad Ali and Mike Tyson, White is simply a promoter of controlled violence. Head shaved, muscle-bound, and afloat of bad-boy chesty charm, helium is arsenic recognizable successful the U.F.C. beingness arsenic immoderate 1 champion. He is besides a antheral of the governmental moment. In Trumpworld, helium is lionized, ubiquitous, arsenic loyal to the President successful his mode arsenic Stephen Miller. When White came by our workplace and spoke with maine for The New Yorker Radio Hour, he’d conscionable had meal with Trump and was blessed to speech astir it.
U.F.C. rules, specified arsenic they are, are minimalist. Fights instrumentality spot successful a fenced-in octagon. They are nasty, brutish, and short. Ears are routinely cauliflowered, noses fractured, limbs shattered. Referees tin beryllium seen waving a frantic decision to the proceedings conscionable arsenic 1 combatant is choking different to the constituent of blackout. Losers often exit the octagon wobbling, smiling, fogged, concussed. The crowds, successful their enthusiasm, successful nary mode lucifer those astatine an August doubleheader. The fevered effect from the stands is portion of the spectacle.
While pro shot remains the preëminent American sport, 1 of the past remaining facets of a fractured monoculture, the U.F.C. has soared successful popularity, filling immense arenas and becoming a fixture of the streaming services. White, present fifty-six, grew up successful working-class Massachusetts. He wanted to beryllium a nonrecreational boxer but thought amended of it erstwhile helium took his wellness into consideration. His aged friends and concern partners, the Fertitta brothers, bought the U.F.C. for 2 cardinal dollars, successful 2001, and made White their beforehand man, giving him an equity stake. The radical sold the U.F.C., successful 2016, to a consortium led by WME-IMG, for 4 cardinal dollars. White is present reportedly worthy arsenic overmuch arsenic fractional a cardinal dollars and continues to propulsion successful a wage of 20 cardinal dollars to tally the show. Our speech has been edited for magnitude and clarity.
How did you get into this?
I was a large instrumentality of boxing and grew up loving boxing. It was my favourite sport. And I went to precocious schoolhouse with these guys, the Fertitta brothers. They owned Station Casinos successful Las Vegas.
You grew up connected the East Coast, and past you moved to Las Vegas.
I moved to Las Vegas erstwhile I was successful 5th grade, and I ended up going to precocious schoolhouse with these guys. And 1 night, Frank Fertitta and I were astatine the Hard Rock successful Las Vegas, and determination was a combatant determination named John Lewis, who fought successful the U.F.C., and helium had a jujitsu school. And Frank said, “I’ve ever wanted to larn jujitsu.” So we went implicit and talked to him. We acceptable up a backstage acquisition connected Monday, and we became obsessed. We started grooming 4 oregon 5 times a week successful jujitsu and done that we started to conscionable a batch of the fighters that fought successful the U.F.C., and we were blown away. Most of these guys . . . you know, it wasn’t the aforesaid communicative arsenic boxing. The boxing communicative is, “I came from the mean streets of specified and such, and if it wasn’t for boxing, I’d beryllium dormant oregon successful jail.” The implicit other with U.F.C. fighters.
Why would that be?
If your parents enactment you successful martial arts erstwhile you were young, your parents had money. Martial-arts grooming isn’t cheap. And a batch of these guys were assemblage wrestlers, truthful they each went to college. Like Chuck Liddell. Do you cognize who Chuck Liddell is?
Sure—tell everybody.
The stereotypical eventual fighter. He’s got a Mohawk, big, mean-looking feline with a Fu Manchu. He looks similar an axe murderer, if you saw the guy. He graduated from Cal Poly with a grade successful accounting. [Laughs.] So these were the benignant of guys that were warring successful the U.F.C., and I thought that their stories were precise interesting. And the information is, if you’ve ever been to a U.F.C. fight, it is the astir breathtaking unrecorded sporting lawsuit you’ll ever see. There’s truthful galore antithetic ways to triumph and lose, and conscionable the vigor and the buzz wrong the gathering is amazing.
What bash you mean there’s truthful galore ways to triumph and lose?
So, successful boxing, I punch you to the caput oregon assemblage much times than you punch maine to the caput oregon body, and I win, oregon I sound you out. In the U.F.C., you tin bash each of that, too, but you tin besides kick, knee, elbow. It tin spell to the crushed wherever you combat for submissions. So it’s non-stop action.
I wrote a publication astir Muhammad Ali agelong ago. I deliberation we some hold helium mightiness beryllium the top jock who ever lived—
Or human!
Who’s the Muhammad Ali of the U.F.C. successful your estimation, and why?
Well, we person a feline named Conor McGregor, who I would accidental is similar our Muhammad Ali. But, if you’re looking for your Michael Jordan, it would beryllium Jon Jones, who is the greatest.
And wherefore is that?
Jon Jones has ne'er been beat, and he’s moved up and down value classes. It’s very, precise unsocial and hard to beryllium undefeated successful the U.F.C.
How did you bargain U.F.C.? Because you look to, successful retrospect, person bought it for a song.
Yeah, 2 cardinal dollars. When we were grooming successful jujitsu, and we started to conscionable a batch of the fighters, I started to negociate immoderate of the guys. And I got into a declaration quality with the aged owner, Bob Meyrowitz, and Bob said, “You cognize what? There is nary much money, O.K.? I don’t adjacent cognize if I tin spend to enactment connected the adjacent event.” We hung up and I said, “Wow, that’s interesting.” I called my partners, Lorenzo and Frank Fertitta, and said, “I conscionable got disconnected the telephone with the proprietor of the U.F.C. I deliberation they’re going bankrupt. They’re successful trouble, and we should bargain them.”
Wasn’t it benignant of risky? You had Senator John McCain—who’s nobody’s thought of a wimp, God knows—call M.M.A. “human cockfighting.”
Right.
How bash you respond to that?
I deliberation that without Senator John McCain I astir apt wouldn’t beryllium sitting present having this speech with you close now.
Tell maine why.
His stance connected the U.F.C. drove them toward—and not lone them, but us, erstwhile we bought it—toward regularisation and being regulated by the diversion commissions successful each state. [He holds his hands adjacent together.] This galore radical privation to spot a freak show. [He holds his hands acold apart.] This galore radical privation to spot a existent sport.
It utilized to beryllium banned successful thirty-six states. What were the regulations enactment into spot truthful that it was nary longer a freak show?
What benignant of tripped them up aboriginal was them sensationalizing it, like, “Two men participate the octagon, 1 antheral leaves: the astir brutal, bloody, convulsive athletics successful the world. There are nary rules!”
That’s conscionable hype. You perceive that successful boxing, too.
When the archetypal 1 was coming, cipher believed it was true. They’re, like, “There’s nary mode this could beryllium real, that this is going to happen.” And it was real. It did happen. And everybody tuned successful due to the fact that of the sensationalism, but that yet ended up biting [Meyrowitz] successful the end.
How so?
Because Senator John McCain went aft it and said it was disgusting. Think about, astatine this time—again, erstwhile you and I grew up, right?—John Wayne movie. John Wayne would deed a guy, right? Guy would spell down. John Wayne didn’t leap connected apical of him and commencement pounding him. He’d basal him backmost up and he’d deed him again. You didn’t bash that. You didn’t leap connected a feline erstwhile helium was down.
At what constituent bash the referees leap successful and halt the proceedings? Because sometimes, idiosyncratic volition spell down, and past the different combatant volition leap connected him and commencement punching him mercilessly successful the head. It’s the fighter’s occupation to support going, I assume. It’s the referee’s occupation to bash what?
It’s the fighter’s occupation to support himself astatine each times. And, if the referee feels similar helium can’t anymore and the combat needs to beryllium stopped, helium stops it. No antithetic than boxing. I mean, you’ve seen immoderate boxing fights wherever the guy’s retired connected his feet, helium goes down—
Yeah, but I’ve seen immoderate terrible, unspeakable refereeing.
I agree. You’ll spot it successful the U.F.C., too. There’s unspeakable refereeing sometimes successful the U.F.C.
But you’re saying it’s unspeakable due to the fact that they’re excessively hesitant to halt it oregon excessively speedy to halt it?
Both. Sometimes they’re excessively quick; sometimes they’re excessively late. There’s unspeakable refereeing successful boxing, U.F.C., basketball, the N.F.L. I mean, you’re ever going to person immoderate quality error.
What is the breakdown of fans: men and women?
Well, a batch much women present than determination were successful the beginning. In the beginning—
Because you person women fighters, too.
My basal was males, eighteen to thirty-four. It was a no-brainer. Really . . . you know, I went done COVID. I don’t ain ceramic and mortar. All I request to bash is acceptable up an octagon determination and beam it—back past I was connected ESPN—beam it to ESPN, and our concern grew similar seventy-seven per cent during COVID, and a batch of them were women.
I’ve noticed that determination are a batch of foreign-born fighters successful the U.F.C., and a batch of them travel from Dagestan, Georgia, Chechnya, Uzbekistan. Why is the Caucasus specified a seedbed for the U.F.C.?
If you came from anyplace that ends successful “stan,” you’re a pugnacious quality being.
Is it a situation to effort to marketplace the U.F.C. erstwhile you person truthful galore overseas fighters? Or it doesn’t truly matter?
No, no. I mean, radical inquire me: “What astir form? What astir connection barriers? What astir this . . . ?” You tin beryllium a deaf-mute, O.K.? If you are the baddest antheral oregon pistillate successful the world, radical privation to ticker you. If you person that Conor McGregor, that Muhammad Ali thing? I mean, that’s just—they’re unicorns.
What does Conor McGregor person that separates him out?
He’s got what Muhammad Ali had. He has that ability, erstwhile helium walks into a room . . . People conscionable are fascinated by them, to perceive to them. They’re funny. They person incredible, magnetic personalities.
And they’re existent personalities? Or are they enactment connected successful the mode that pro wrestlers of my puerility and past after—
Some are. Some person the happening that they crook on. Muhammad Ali was the aforesaid feline successful the surviving room, with his woman and kids, that helium was erstwhile you saw him connected TV. And Conor McGregor’s the same.
Why bash you deliberation U.F.C. has taken disconnected now? What is it astir the culture, the different sports, the media sphere?
Well, I person this doctrine that nary substance what colour you are, what state you travel from, what connection you speak—we’re each quality beings, and fighting’s successful our DNA. We get it, and we similar it. Even a blase feline similar you that writes for The New Yorker and whatever—if a combat broke retired successful present close now, that would make this benignant of vigor successful present with you and I. We’d be, like, “Oh, wow.” And we would ticker the combat play out. As humans, it’s just—
You deliberation it’s conscionable successful us?
It’s successful us. Absolutely. A 100 per cent.
Is that thing disfigured successful us?
I don’t cognize astir ugly. We’re each fighters. We each person to fight. When you get retired of furniture each morning, beingness is lasting close determination to footwear you successful the face.
I’ve noticed. [Laughs.]
[Laughs.] And it could be, arsenic soon arsenic you get outside, you got a level tire.
Dana, I deliberation you’ve got to springiness maine recognition for going this agelong without mentioning Donald Trump’s name, but you’re associated with him.
I’m not associated with him—he’s 1 of my very, precise bully friends.
O.K. You spoke for him astatine the nominating Conventions. I deliberation astatine the triumph celebration, you were 1 of the speakers close determination with him.
Which I didn’t spot coming. That was not planned.
Why? Tell maine a spot astir the origins of your narration with Donald Trump. I don’t cognize if it’s governmental successful origin, oregon just . . .
Furthest happening from political.
Tell me.
When we started this—all the things that we’ve talked about, successful buying and gathering the U.F.C. . . . Arenas did not privation us. What benignant of radical would amusement up to spot an lawsuit similar this, quality cockfighting? So Donald Trump owned the Atlantic City Casinos astatine the time, and helium had america travel to the Taj—the Taj Mahal—for the archetypal combat that we did, U.F.C. 30. We did U.F.C. 30 and U.F.C. 31 astatine the Taj Mahal.
What twelvemonth is this?
2001. He showed up for the archetypal combat of the night, and stayed till the end, some times that we went there. And each bully happening that ever happened to maine successful my vocation aft that, helium was ever the archetypal feline to scope retired and say, “Congratulations. I ever knew this was going to beryllium big. I knew you were going to . . .”
What did helium similar astir it?
Well, I deliberation he’s a combat fan. You privation to speech astir a fighter: I mean, that guy’s a fighter—one of the astir resilient quality beings I’ve ever met successful my life. And helium had the large Tyson fights and boxing matches astatine his place. So he’s a combat fan. And the feline has ever been a bully person to me. And then, successful 2015, erstwhile helium decided helium was going to run, helium called maine and said, “If you don’t privation to bash this, I wholly understand, but I would beryllium honored if you would talk for maine astatine the Republican Convention.” And everybody told maine not to bash it.
Well, Dana, archer maine a small spot what your authorities were similar up until then, and what was your consciousness of his authorities up until then?
I would accidental that my authorities person ever been commonsense, down the middle, leaning a small left.
In what sense?
My twenties, my precocious teens and twenties, I spent successful Massachusetts, which is precise liberal. I would see myself an eighties, nineties Democrat.
Have you changed, implicit time, politically?
No, I haven’t changed.
So you stay a benignant of center-left Democrat?
Yeah, yeah.
Do you speech authorities with Trump, oregon did you earlier the archetypal Convention?
No.
That wasn’t a currency of your speech oregon your relationship?
If you look astatine immoderate of my speeches astatine the Conventions oregon immoderate of that, I don’t ever accidental “the near is wrong” oregon “the near is bad” oregon “the near is this.” I spoke astir who helium is arsenic a idiosyncratic and arsenic a person and arsenic a quality being. Because a batch of the communicative that they enactment retired determination astir him, and who helium is arsenic a person, is gross. And absolutely, positively not true.
O.K., truthful let’s excavation into that a small bit, too. I deliberation it’s just to accidental that, if helium has that reputation, it doesn’t travel from outer space.
Oh, it does. It comes from politics. That’s wherever it comes from. It comes from—
But doesn’t it travel from immoderate of his rhetoric, and immoderate of his mode of treating radical and talking astir people?
No, I deliberation that . . . Did I privation that, backmost successful the day, he’d enactment disconnected Twitter a small spot more? Listen, he’s a pugnacious guy, and he’s not acrophobic to springiness his opinion, but he’s been talking astir authorities since helium was young. I mean, if you look backmost astatine him . . . But these things that he’s a racist, and he’s a Nazi, and he’s this and that . . . I mean, Donald Trump . . . All this stuff’s coming retired now, the “Michael” movie conscionable came out, and you spot each these videos present popping up of Trump defending Michael Jackson, and the benignant of idiosyncratic that helium was, and that Michael Jackson was astir his children and astir his household a lot.
Wait a minute, Dana—Michael Jackson, arsenic talented arsenic helium was, arsenic superb arsenic helium was, was a deeply, profoundly flawed quality being, to accidental the least.
No uncertainty astir it.
And was abusive . . . everything we cognize astir him.
Wait, wait. He was abusive?
Toward kids. Yes. It’s terrible.
I don’t cognize if that’s true, but I tin archer you that the President had a precise bully narration with Michael Jackson, and had Michael Jackson astir his kids each the time, and defended him erstwhile that worldly was going down. So to telephone the feline a racist is crazy.
Look, I don’t privation to spell connected endlessly astir Donald Trump, due to the fact that past that’s each we’ll do. But, erstwhile helium puts retired a video that shows the Obamas arsenic apes and past won’t adjacent apologize for it, you don’t get the willies from that?
No, I’ve been astir the feline truthful much, and—
But that doesn’t springiness you pause, Dana?
As acold arsenic what?
Just astir the mode helium talks astir different quality beings, overmuch little race.
First of all, I became friends with this feline ne'er adjacent imagining that helium would beryllium the President of the United States someday. And, if helium was that benignant of person, I would ne'er subordinate with that benignant of a person, nary substance who helium was oregon who helium thinks helium is.
But, if helium does that, however is helium not that benignant of person?
He’s not. He’s not.
But bash you cognize thing that I don’t know? What you’re telling maine is that you benignant of know . . . of course, you cognize him amended personally, but he’s the astir transparent property we person successful nationalist life.
True.
He talks to the property each the time. He’s connected societal media each the time. It seems sometimes there’s thing that we don’t cognize astir him.
Very true.
So he’s astir arsenic evident to maine arsenic helium is to you.
I don’t cognize astir the Obama thing, to talk connected that. I’ve ne'er seen it. I didn’t cognize that. But I tin archer you this: He’s not a racist. He’s not a fascist. He loves this country. And if you’re an American—race, religion, immoderate it is—President Trump is connected your team. That I warrant you.
There’s different idiosyncratic you person a precise adjacent narration with. In fact, you hired him arsenic an announcer, colour commentator: Joe Rogan. Tell maine astir him, due to the fact that I perceive to him from clip to time. I’ve written astir him. But present that he’s hugely famous, he’s benignant of protective of himself and his brand. Tell maine astir your narration with him.
When we bought the company, the institution was based present successful New York. So I flew from Vegas to New York and had to commencement cleaning retired the office, and determination were videotapes everywhere. I had to fig retired what was important to nonstop backmost to Vegas, and what I was going to propulsion away. So I virtually watched hundreds of tapes. And successful 1 of the tapes that I popped in, the mode that Joe spoke astir the U.F.C., and however fighters successful the U.F.C. would lucifer up against immoderate of these Hollywood enactment stars, I was, like, “This guy’s great. This is precisely who I need.”
Because his endowment is what?
His endowment is: he’s a martial artist. Black loop successful jujitsu. So the hardest portion successful selling this thing, the Fertittas and I knew: Everybody understands the standup. Punching and kicking, everybody gets. But, arsenic soon arsenic it hits the ground, radical person nary thought what’s going on.
What bash you mean?
As acold arsenic mounting up submissions, the sleeper holds—
So it’s much hidden and much complicated.
Yeah. The method broadside of the crushed game, Joe was brilliant, and he’s a truly bully speaker. So helium could locomotion you done what was happening seconds earlier it adjacent happened. And helium was large astatine speaking publically astir the U.F.C.
When we archetypal bought the company, I flew each implicit the state gathering with editors of newspapers, due to the fact that remember: newspapers were the king then. So each these guys were sixty to sixty-five years aged that I was talking to. All they cared astir was ball-and-stick sports, and sometimes boxing. You cognize what I mean? And the information of the substance was: There was nary country for U.F.C. successful the papers. So I had to bargain my mode onto radio. Radio was inactive very applicable then.
So we would bash these satellite-radio tours, and what we learned is: fighters are not bully radio. They’d amusement up late. They’d inactive dependable similar they were sleeping. There was thing exciting. So maine and Joe Rogan had to bash each these vigor tours.
By yourselves.
Now we’re connected the West Coast. We had to aftermath up astatine 3 o’clock successful the morning, due to the fact that they’re going to driblet america into the East Coast astatine six o’clock thrust time. So past we’d spell East Coast, Midwest, and past the circuit would extremity connected the West Coast. Our commencement each started connected radio.
So helium worked for you for rather a while, and past helium evidently has his podcast, which is gigantic. My knowing is that you were instrumental successful getting him to endorse Donald Trump this past clip around. Tell maine that story.
Yeah. I tried to link him and Trump for astir apt six years.
Was Rogan wary of Trump successful immoderate way?
Yeah. Well, Rogan didn’t privation to beryllium political. He did not privation to get into politics. He did not privation to beryllium political . . . But past helium had Bernie Sanders on.
That’s right. He was benignant of pro-Bernie Sanders.
Very. And, adjacent erstwhile I talked to him astir Trump going connected the podcast, helium said, “Well, O.K., I’m going to invitation Kamala, too.”
Yeah.
“Well, cool. Get it. Love it.” And aboriginal on, I started telling the President, “If you enactment connected Fox, and lone Fox, you’re going to lose, due to the fact that astir of the radical connected Fox are already voting for you, and each different web says horrible things astir you. You got to commencement getting into podcasts.”
And who was helium going to scope erstwhile helium goes connected Joe Rogan, successful your view?
Well, it wasn’t conscionable Joe Rogan; it was different podcasters, which . . . He was picking maine up successful Las Vegas, and we were flying to Arizona for a rally. And there’s a radical called the Nelk Boys that I had created a narration with. They’re young kids that bash pranks and they’re YouTubers, influencers. And I called Jared Kushner, and I said, “I privation to bring this radical of kids, the Nelk Boys, connected Air Force One with america to Arizona.” And Jared Kushner says, “Well, you’re asking him that. I’m not.” And truthful I called him, and helium said, “Yeah, let’s bash it.” So successful the backmost of Air Force One, there’s a league room. We’re each waiting successful the league room, and past yet the President calls america up to his bureau successful the beforehand of the plane. We get successful there, and these guys are each excited due to the fact that they’re Trump fans—and, you know, they’re kids. At 1 point, helium looks astatine maine and he’s, like, “Are you kidding maine close now? Are you serious?” And we’re each successful determination taking pictures.
To his brilliance, we spell to the rally, helium does the rally, and he’s leaving the stage, and the “Y.M.C.A.” thing’s playing, and helium sees 1 of the kids, whose sanction is SteveWillDoIt, and he’s going crazy. The President calls him up connected signifier with him, and the full assemblage erupts, and they commencement doing the “Y.M.C.A.” thing. It was the astir viral happening connected the net that day. And past helium got it. The powerfulness of these kids that astir radical don’t know. The media is each starting to get into it now, which—
Right. It’s not “60 Minutes.” It’s not the mainstream newspaper.
I ever say: By the clip the media catches up, it’s over. So past we got him connected their podcast, and the podcast did thing similar 8 cardinal views successful 4 hours. He got it.
If I understand, you called Rogan, arsenic the run betwixt Kamala Harris and Donald Trump was winding down. You called Rogan, I think, and you said, “Are you going to endorse oregon not?” What happened?
Yes.
Tell maine astir that conversation.
I was flying to Mar-a-Lago, maine and Frank Fertitta, for Election Night, and helium had done the podcast, and the podcast was blowing up, pulling immense numbers. And I texted him and said, “Are you voting for Trump?” And helium said, “Yes.” I said, “Then endorse. Why person you not endorsed him?”
What’d helium say?
He said, “I’m conscionable busy. I’m this. I’m that.”
He said, “I’m busy?”
Yeah.
Please. So what happened?
He endorsed.
So that was you. It’s connected you.
Is it connected me?
You gave him the other shove.
Yeah. Well, I had been moving connected him for a fewer years.
These days, I’m definite you’ve noticed, he’s beauteous captious of Trump. Now, helium was thrilled to spot him endorse hallucinogens and ibogaine, but he’s been precise pugnacious connected him connected a fig of issues including ICE, the warfare successful Iran. Do you hold with Rogan connected this?
I deliberation that anybody who is the President of the United States, you’re ne'er going to hold with a 100 per cent of what they do.
But what bash you disagree with, with Donald Trump?
Me and Donald Trump are friends.
I get . . . So you person this, you’re saying, “We’re friends”—
I don’t person a transactional narration with Donald Trump.
Do you hold with him connected Iran?
I don’t know. I mean, I’m not a governmental guy!
You’re speaking astatine the Conventions! You’re astatine the triumphant triumph party!
And what did I say? What did I accidental erstwhile I was astatine those—
They were congratulatory. They were personal, for sure. They weren’t policy-oriented speeches.
They were perfectly idiosyncratic speeches. They weren’t governmental successful immoderate way, shape, oregon form.
You deliberation it would beryllium disloyal, you’re saying?
What would be?
To knock him successful immoderate way.
No, no, no. Not to knock him. And I’m not saying that I hold with each his policies.
But you privation to support that general, not specific, is what you’re saying.
Me, personally?
Yeah.
You cognize what I do? I tin power my small satellite that I unrecorded in, successful my bubble: my employees, my fighters, my family, and my friends.
You’re astir to person an bonzer lawsuit successful Washington. You’re going to observe the two-hundred-and-fiftieth day of the Declaration of Independence with a U.F.C. combat lawsuit connected the White House lawn. And I’ve heard the weigh-ins whitethorn instrumentality spot astatine the Lincoln Memorial—is that true?
Correct.
Tell maine astir that event, its origins, and what you anticipation to do.
So, we were astatine a fight, and I can’t retrieve if it was successful New Jersey oregon Miami—we being maine and the President—and helium leans implicit to maine successful the mediate of the combat and goes, “We should bash a combat astatine the White House.” I said, “Yes. Yes, we should. I’m in. I’m in!” [Laughs.] And he’s, like, “I deliberation it would beryllium large to person an lawsuit for America’s two-hundred-and-fiftieth.” So literally, that was a Saturday. On Monday, the White House started calling, saying, “Let’s commencement getting the logistics acceptable up.”
And you’re successful charge.
Yeah.
How’s it going to work? Who are you going to person fight?
So, each combat really means thing and matters, successful the division. Two satellite titles connected the line. And stylistically, it should beryllium a large fight.
What’s it going to look like? I’ve seen sketches. It looks similar a combat successful outer abstraction with the White House there.
The crushed that it looks similar that is: I don’t privation to spot a light, a screen, a microphone. All I privation to spot is the White House—the full White House—and the monument, if the combat goes the different way. So we had to physique this happening that we’re calling “the claw.” It’s the lighting grid—
And however galore radical are going to beryllium successful the stands astir it?
There volition beryllium a small implicit 4 thousand. The President has a 1000 tickets. I person 2 100 tickets, and Ari Emanuel has 2 100 tickets, and the remainder are going to each the antithetic branches of the military, of the 4 1000 radical that volition beryllium there. And past successful the Ellipse, which is simply a parkland close crossed the thoroughfare from the White House, there’ll beryllium eighty-five 1000 people.
How are you going to broadcast this?
We conscionable signed a caller seven-year woody with Paramount Plus, and each of our contented is there.
Do you announcement radical connected the different broadside of the aisle—Democrats, liberals—trying to amusement up astatine U.F.C. fights, befriend you, oregon are you acrophobic that you person a benignant of partisan image?
No, we haven’t had anybody.
And wherefore bash you accidental that is?
I would ne'er disrespect oregon crook anybody away. You cognize what I mean?
I get that. But it’s absorbing to spot them amusement up astatine Joe Rogan’s microphone, and they mightiness spell to a World Series game, oregon an N.B.A. playoff game, but they’re keeping their region from U.F.C.
I don’t deliberation they’re keeping their distance. I deliberation that the quality with President Trump is: He was a Day One fan. He gave america that accidental to travel to the Taj Mahal. And you saw it with Obama—Obama’s a instrumentality of the N.B.A. So helium showed up astatine N.B.A. games and—
Not U.F.C.
Yeah.
Has Obama ever showed up astatine a U.F.C. fight?
No. No. But astatine the Inauguration, I was sitting down each the ex-Presidents.
I saw that.
Yeah. And determination was thing that went retired online and it said, “Oh, look astatine Dana mad-dogging Obama” and each this different stuff. President Obama turned astir and said to me, “Congratulations connected each your success. I’m truly blessed for you.” And I said, “Thank you, Mr. President.”
That indispensable person made you consciousness good.
Yeah, it was great!
You were conscionable astatine the White House Correspondents’ dinner, and you were quoted arsenic saying—and I don’t privation to instrumentality this retired of context—
Yeah, no, you go.
You said, “It was awesome.” That could person been—it was beauteous horrible. What did you mean by “it was awesome”?
So, I was sitting determination talking to Pete Hegseth.
The Secretary of Defense.
Yes.
Or War, depending connected your—
Yes. We were talking astir each this fascinating stuff, and each of a sudden—
Wait, wait, you can’t spell that fast. What was the fascinating worldly you were talking about?
We were talking astir Iran, and what’s going connected implicit there.
What was helium telling you?
I’ll permission that alone. [Laughs.]
I marque a surviving astatine this!
I understand, sir. I understand. All of a sudden, you commencement proceeding conscionable crashing—like, plates and dishes and glasses. And I crook around, and what looked similar 50 Secret Service guys are kicking tables over, moving connected the apical of tables, and they’re screaming, “Everybody get connected the ground!” And I was, like, “Oh, my God.” Then I watched them propulsion Vance and Trump disconnected the stage. They wide the stage, and past virtually the full signifier is guys with guns with lights connected them pointed astatine us. Now the Secret Service guys are coming toward our table. I was the archetypal array successful beforehand of the stage, and we don’t cognize what’s going on. Is determination a shooter? Is determination a bomb?
And conscionable the adrenaline successful your body—in excavation anyway—was disconnected the charts. I mean, they’re saying, “Get down, get down!” First of all, I’m ne'er a “get down” benignant of guy. That’s ne'er going to happen. If there’s thing going connected here—I got atrocious quality for my family—it’s going to beryllium a closed casket, due to the fact that I’m not getting changeable successful the backmost laying connected the ground. And these guys came in, and however accelerated they moved done this place. It was just . . . Now, being different man, archer maine the top movie you ever saw, with those benignant of . . . conscionable connected steroids. Now—
Dana, it wasn’t a movie.
I know. Which made it adjacent greater. And, erstwhile it was over, I was like—for 4 hours, I was bouncing disconnected the walls.
What did Hegseth do?
Let maine archer you what Hegseth didn’t do. He didn’t get connected the ground, either. He was sitting close adjacent to me—and past his woman was with him, and past helium ended up taking his woman retired of there.
But you stayed.
Oh yeah. Well, I had to stay! Nobody could . . .
Nobody’s dragging you off.
[Laughs.] Nobody dragged maine out. We had to enactment successful there. And I’ll archer you this, too: You had the Who’s Who from politics, the Who’s Who from the media, and the Who’s Who successful concern successful this room. And tons of far-left wide media, which were a batch of women. None of these women were screaming. None of these women were getting overly excited astir this thing. And past erstwhile it was over, and we knew that the menace was over, everybody conscionable started getting unneurotic and talking. It was beauteous badass and beauteous impressive.
You weren’t frightened astatine all?
Never.
Not adjacent for Trump’s sake, or . . . ?
No, they had the—
You thought that it was nether control.
They had them retired of determination beauteous quick.
What did you deliberation Trump was going to accidental that night, astir the press?
Well, helium tried to travel back. He wanted to decorativeness it. He wanted to bash the event, and Secret Service wouldn’t fto him. I’m definite determination were a batch of far-left women successful determination that astir apt don’t similar me . . .
What counts arsenic acold near for you? What bash you mean?
You know, successful the media. CNN. We each got unneurotic aft that, and everybody was talking. And there’s conscionable this level of camaraderie, and conscionable that—
Buzz.
A “holy shit, what we conscionable went through” benignant of thing.
Have you talked to President Trump since then?
I was with him past night. I had meal with him.
And how’d that meal go? What’d you speech about?
It was great. Well, determination were different radical astatine the . . . He opened the Rose Garden past night, and helium had his archetypal meal retired there. I flew successful and had meal with him, and past flew here.
What bash you speech about?
You know, helium and I conscionable speech astir thing that you would usually speech to your person about. What’s new? How’s the family? Movies? How you been? He looked great. He looks similar he’s successful bully signifier close now.
So you don’t bargain the concern of . . . He’s astir eighty, and it’s not casual being President. It’s not casual being eighty. And past his wellness is lousy. You don’t spot that?
His wellness is acold from lousy.
Tell maine astir that.
Far from lousy. And this isn’t the Biden—you know, buddies of his, backing him up, saying whatever. He looks similar he’s successful amended signifier than the past clip I saw him, and helium was connected constituent past night.
Is helium disquieted astir his Presidency? His popularity is astatine a grounds low—a grounds debased for different Presidents, too. Where bash you deliberation helium is astatine this point?
I deliberation that . . . he’s got 3 much years left. And again—
Two and a half, but who’s counting.
You justice him erstwhile it’s over. When his tally is over, and helium moves on, and you look backmost astatine what helium accomplished and what he’s done. I deliberation there’s a batch of things that he’s evidently ne'er going to get recognition for, because, if you don’t similar him, you don’t similar him.
What bash you springiness him recognition for, arsenic President?
Securing our borders. I mean, however bash you not springiness him recognition for that? The Middle East. Look astatine the enactment helium did successful the Middle East during his archetypal term, and—
You’re referring to the Abraham Accords.
Yeah. Of course.
And now?
I mean, the Middle East is simply a tricky spot to navigate, and I deliberation helium does a amended occupation than most.
I get the sense, Dana, that, to immoderate degree, you’ll beryllium gladsome not to person to reply questions astir Donald Trump erstwhile he’s retired of office. Am I wrong?
People tin inquire maine astir Donald Trump for the remainder of my life, and I’ll archer you each the large things that I emotion astir this guy. What I’ll beryllium blessed to beryllium retired of is politics. I don’t privation to speech astir politics—whether they’re his, Obama’s, this guy, that guy, nary of them.
Now, you made a immense woody with the U.F.C. How overmuch did you travel distant with?
7.7 billion.
You personally?
Oh, no, no, no, no. The company.
And however astir you?
Yeah. I bash truly well. [Laughs.]
Are you a billionaire now?
No. No.
You’re close?
[Laughs.] I walk excessively overmuch money. I’ll ne'er beryllium a billionaire.
I’ve watched you play poker connected television, and different games of chance, and the bets connected the array are successful the hundreds of thousands of dollars—and sometimes, connected a azygous bet, implicit a cardinal bucks.
Right.
Are you retired of your mind?
Yes.
You’re married, right?
Yes.
How does your woman consciousness astir these bets?
Yeah, you know. My wife’s doing O.K., too. We don’t person a batch to kick about.
No, but you cognize that successful the end, the location wins, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And successful the end, you lone unrecorded once.
You person a idiosyncratic life, evidently friendships. You look similar you’re successful bully shape.
Kids. I got kids. Thank you—trying.
What bash you bash to support jacked?
I enactment out . . . Listen, erstwhile you turn, similar you said, mid-fifties—
Tell maine astir it.
I’m trying not to get fat, and I’m trying not to get hurt. Those are my 2 goals each day. And, you know, unrecorded the champion prime of beingness that I can. I similar spending clip with my . . . I conscionable went to the Kentucky Derby for the archetypal time, with my woman and kids.
Did you enactment down a bet?
I did, yeah.
How’d you do?
I didn’t bash well. I don’t sports-bet!
How overmuch did you enactment down?
I enactment down seventy thousand.
Now, however large is gambling successful your enactment of concern with U.F.C.?
Oh, it’s big. Yeah. I mean, betting connected fights. Sports betting, period, is monolithic close now. I bash not sports-bet, though.
But however bash you support it clean? How bash you support it connected the up-and-up?
Yeah, we’ve had a mates of betting issues. But we person a institution called U.S. Integrity that watches this benignant of stuff.
That’s a backstage company, that—
Yeah. They fto america cognize whenever—
The authorities doesn’t get involved?
No. So we had an contented wherever we saw immoderate irregular betting going on, and we called the F.B.I.
What does “irregular betting” mean successful this context?
When you person a combat that isn’t, like, the main event, and the enactment starts to determination a lot . . . There’s thing fishy going connected erstwhile an undercard combat and a enactment starts moving.
Particularly the undercard, not the headliners.
Yeah, due to the fact that the headliners are precise precocious profile, and tons of radical are betting connected it, and . . . It tin hap there, too, but it’s a batch much noticeable erstwhile it happens connected a prelim fight.
Now you’re besides successful the boxing business. You’ve conscionable precocious launched a caller boxing institution called—
Zuffa.
What does “zuffa” mean, by the way?
To fight, successful Italian.
My content has been that, with immoderate exceptions successful caller years, boxing is surely not what it was successful the fifties and sixties and seventies—
Or eighties oregon nineties.
Or eighties oregon nineties. Is boxing declining? And, if so, wherefore are you getting into it?
Yeah. I deliberation that boxing has been breached for a agelong time, for a batch of antithetic reasons. I emotion the sport, and I’ve ever talked astir jumping successful and trying to enactment my rotation connected boxing. Everything successful beingness is astir timing, and the timing conscionable worked retired successful the past year. And truthful acold truthful good. I’m having amusive with it. What I privation to bash is effort to rip it apart, physique it from the crushed up, and spot what I tin bash with it implicit the adjacent 5 years. ♦
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