Commentary: Mehdi Hasan reflects on Zeteo one year after launch: 'We're in a very good place'

Journalism isn’t what it utilized to be, and that’s not needfully a atrocious thing. Especially if you’re Mehdi Hasan.

Hasan, 45, is nary alien to the rising dissatisfaction astir the authorities of the quality media and the disorder implicit however we devour our news. He roseate done the ranks of broadcast giants, including the BBC, Al Jazeera and MSNBC, and has written connected subjects ranging from Trump’s tariffs to Gaza for outlets specified arsenic the Guardian and the Huffington Post.

But nary substance wherever he’s been connected camera oregon published, the British-born lad of Indian immigrants asked the benignant of pugnacious questions that gained him a estimation arsenic a fierce debater and unflinching proponent of high-impact, often adversarial journalism.

“When we speech astir media organizations, it’s often asked, ‘Are they near oregon are they right?’” Hasan says. “But I don’t deliberation that dynamic is helpful. For me, it’s much similar bash they support their heads down oregon bash they support their heads up?”

Hasan’s unwillingness to soften the edges astir hot-button topics could beryllium the crushed he’s worked for much outlets than astir public-facing folks successful the media. His departure from MSNBC successful January 2024, for example, came aft his shows were canceled by the web for “business reasons.” They offered to support him connected arsenic a contributor, but helium declined.

Instead, helium started his ain autarkic platform, the Washington, D.C.-based Zeteo. Now, connected the one-year day of his enterprise, Hasan talks astir what it took to make an outlet determination betwixt mainstream quality and “burn it each down” media.

This speech has been edited for magnitude and clarity.

“When we speech astir media organizations, it’s often asked, ‘Are they near oregon are they right?’” Mehdi Hasan says. “But I don’t deliberation that dynamic is helpful.”

(Tom Keeter Photography)

What did it instrumentality to get Zeteo up and running?

Me and the 4 radical who acceptable it up. And it was Ramadan. And I was fasting. I volition accidental I ne'er privation to bash a startup institution again with 4 radical during Ramadan [laughs]. We’re inactive a small, nimble operation, but it’s not insane arsenic 4 radical trying to bash everything. We person a governmental correspondent, Prem Thakker, who broke the field deportation story. We brought connected Jamaal Bowman and Cori Bush, members of Congress, to bash a YouTube amusement for america called “Bowman and Bush.” [Former Washington Post columnist] Taylor Lorenz has conscionable go a contributor for us. We person Daniel Levy, the erstwhile Israeli bid negotiator. And we’re going to beryllium announcing much successful the coming days arsenic we attack the anniversary. So we’re increasing connected that front.

The sanction Zeteo comes from the past Greek connection for “seeking out” oregon “striving.” Why not conscionable telephone your startup the Mehdi Hasan Network?

It was ne'er going to beryllium the Mehdi Hasan network. Obviously, I’m the look of it. I’m the founder. I bash the flagship shows. But it was ever astir being much than me. That is the goal. If I execute thing else, I’ve provided a level for truly absorbing radical to accidental the unsayable, whether it’s [Egyptian governmental satirist] Bassem Youssef connected the podcast; John Harwood [formerly of CNN], who writes astonishing governmental pieces for us; Pakistani novelist Fatima Bhutto; Amy Klein; Owen Jones; oregon Greta Thunberg. They are saying things arsenic contributors you won’t spot elsewhere.

You moved to the U.S. successful 2015, wherever you hosted a play amusement connected Al Jazeera English. But conscionable 5 years later, you landed your ain show, “The Mehdi Hasan Show,” connected Peacock. And soon aft that, you were slotted into MSNBC’s lineup. That’s a accelerated trajectory.

When I moved here, radical said to me, “Oh, you’re going to extremity up astatine CNN, MSNBC due to the fact that you bash large interviews.” I was like, “No one’s ever going to prosecute me. I’m a brown, Muslim, lefty immigrant. I’m blessed astatine Al Jazeera.” Mainstream was ne'er going to beryllium for me, yet Phil Griffin and MSNBC took a accidental connected maine successful 2020 and hired maine to bash a show. I didn’t deliberation I’d past longer than six months, but I lasted for 3½ years.

As the state has go much polarized, there’s been disapproval that journalism is present much astir activism than quality gathering. What’s your take?

You don’t person to specify activism arsenic changing things and journalism arsenic not changing things. The biggest changes successful our nine person travel from journalism. Investigative journalism, astatine its precise best, changes things. It holds radical accountable. It forces radical to alteration structures, betterment institutions. So I deliberation the champion journalism is interaction journalism that drives change. Otherwise, what is the point? Horse-race journalism — who’s up, who’s down, who’s doing good successful the polls — that’s ne'er been my interest. I bash it occasionally due to the fact that it has its role, but that’s ne'er been what drives me. I don’t deliberation it should beryllium what drives our industry, either. I privation to marque a change. That’s wherefore I bash what I do. Otherwise, I’d beryllium an accountant.

Where does Zeteo basal successful the crowded tract of caller media startups?

One happening I was precise wide astir erstwhile I launched Zeteo was that I was going to beryllium walking that tightrope betwixt being anti-establishment and establishment, betwixt mainstream and non-mainstream. A batch of radical didn’t similar that. What happens to a batch of left-wing media outlets is that they get marginalized oregon marginalize themselves. They’re seen arsenic fringe. But there’s nary constituent successful doing fantabulous journalism, fantabulous op-eds oregon commissioning superb documentaries if nary 1 sees them.

Mehdi Hasan says helium “was going to beryllium walking that tightrope betwixt being anti-establishment and establishment” with Zeteo.

(Tom Keeter Photography)

Did you program connected becoming a journalist?

I went to Oxford University. I did PPE [Politics, Philosophy and Economics]. Most of my graduating people went disconnected to beryllium absorption consultants and concern bankers. I went disconnected to get a 13,000-pound-a-year job, to the large disappointment of my Asian parents. But moving successful TV seemed important.

As kids of immigrants, our parents came from places wherever the media was hobbled oregon wherever determination is nary escaped press. Now you’re successful the U.S., and the media is facing unprecedented challenges from the Trump administration.

It’s a risky time. People support saying to me, “Trump’s bully for business, right? You’re going to get loads of subscribers due to the fact that helium talks brainsick worldly and makes authorities interesting.” Yeah, successful theory, successful the sheer procreation of quality stories, he’s bully for business. But successful presumption of the large representation of a escaped property — no, he’s not. I interest astir the aboriginal of my enactment successful a state that’s going fascist precise quickly. I interest astir Zeteo arsenic a tiny startup astatine a clip erstwhile large media companies similar ABC and CBS and immoderate mightiness reason the L.A. Times — their owners are rolling implicit for Trump. And you’ve got MAGA folks who are intimidating journalists. For a portion I’ve had salient radical successful the MAGA question saying deport and denaturalize Mehdi Hasan, and successful the existent climate, that’s not the benignant of happening you instrumentality lightly. Journalists person been intimidated, threatened, harassed.

Now, having said that, we’ve got to enactment it successful context. I’m inactive successful the U.S., inactive protected by the 1st Amendment. I’m not successful Gaza, wherever implicit 200 journalists person been killed. It’s the worst struggle for journalists successful history. The Civil War, WWI, WWII — nary of it comes close. Yes, it’s a risky clip for journalists successful America, but successful context, we’re inactive 10,000 times successful a amended spot than journalists successful Gaza, for example.

This period marks 1 twelvemonth since Zeteo’s authoritative launch. How are things going?

I’m a precise cautious person. I’ve ne'er tally a concern before. I don’t person that entrepreneurial streak of risk-taking. When I launched this, I was ace cautious astir what we could achieve. But, amazingly, the enactment I got aft I near MSNBC and announced Zeteo blew maine away. We blasted done each of our aboriginal benchmarks, metrics and targets, and by the clip we deed the summer, we were good up of ourselves. So we’re successful a precise bully place.

Can you sanction immoderate of the benchmarks?

A twelvemonth in, astir startups don’t interruption even. But this twelvemonth we’ve made a tiny profit, which we weren’t readying on. We’re astatine 400,000 subscribers, which is not wherever I thought we’d be. We’re No. 6 connected Substack, down Bari Weiss, Heather Cox [Richardson] and the Bulwark folks. We person 715,000 followers connected YouTube close present and we’re increasing by much than 1,000 a day. We’ve got much than 40,000 paying subscribers, which helps wage the bills. And we’ve got implicit 1,000 founding members who wage $500 a twelvemonth to enactment us.

“A twelvemonth in, astir startups don’t interruption even. But this twelvemonth we’ve made a tiny profit, which we weren’t readying on,” Mehdi Hasan says.

(Tom Keeter Photography)

Is firm media adequately covering the America we unrecorded successful today?

My presumption is not that the firm media’s dormant oregon that each mainstream media is bad. That would beryllium ridiculous. I’ve worked successful these organizations. There are large journalists doing large enactment there. My presumption is that mainstream media gets a batch wrong, and determination are a batch of gaps that request to beryllium filled, and that is what Zeteo is doing. That doesn’t mean I privation to pain it each down. We wouldn’t beryllium capable to beryllium arsenic a tiny media concern if we weren’t capable to trust connected large investigative scoops from definite radical astatine the Post oregon Politico oregon the New York Times. That doesn’t mean I similar everything that those outlets do.

For a time, the journalistic standards successful bequest newsrooms made covering MAGA conspiracy theories, lies and genuinely fake quality incredibly difficult. It was similar utilizing an aged dialect to picture a caller language.

Even successful sentiment journalism, calling Trump a racist caused a statement successful newsrooms for a decade. More and much radical present accidental the R-word. But for a time, it was “he said thing racially tinged, racially divisive, racially loaded.” It’s like, conscionable accidental racist. It’s less letters. Let’s not insult our viewers and our readers. Let’s not disrespect them. Everyone knows what’s going on.

They cognize “mistruth” is conscionable a softer connection for “lie.”

My presumption is precise simple: If you accidental thing mendacious much than erstwhile aft you’ve been corrected, it’s a lie. That’s Trump 100 times over.

You are known for being unapologetically outspoken, and pinning your statement opponents connected divisive issues. You adjacent channeled your superpower into a book, “Win Every Argument.”

There’s ever been that shadowing astir maine wherever I’ve been. It’s made radical uncomfortable successful a batch of places. I’m not going to sanction an outlet, but I volition accidental this, determination person been times wherever an interrogation I’ve done has gone viral and radical are like, “Oh, my God, mic drop! The person’s been destroyed,” to usage YouTube language. That’s what radical cognize maine for. Then I’ll notation that to a person oregon household member, and they volition say, but bash your bosses adjacent privation that? And it’s like, “Oh, I didn’t deliberation of that. Good question.”

Which brings america backmost to MSNBC…

When MSNBC canceled my shows, I knew that I didn’t privation to conscionable spell to different web oregon different paper. I’ve worked for a batch of places successful my career: BBC, Sky News, Al Jazeera, NBC. I constitute a monthly file for the Guardian, but I didn’t privation to spell enactment for the Guardian. I’ve already done worldly for the Intercept and the New Statesman. I wanted to bash my ain thing, truthful I thought if not now, when? This thought that I needed to talk freely crystallized beauteous quickly, particularly successful the clime we’re successful with Gaza, the instrumentality of Trump, fascism. As acold arsenic ever being employed by anyone other again, I deliberation that vessel has sailed.